The Wisconsin Geocaching Association

  Login or Register

Website Navigation

62.png Home

49.png Information Center
26.png WGA Newsletters
24.png Reviewer's Words
53.png Presentation Resources
39.png Geocaching Files
27.png Bookmarks
56.png Location Rules and Regs
49.png BOD Info Center

17.png Forums
16.png New Posts
20.png Unanswered Posts

calendar_day.png Upcoming Events
mapicon.png Map
29.png Calendar
11.png Submit Event

mapicon.png WGA State Park CachesNew content !

shield_star.png Cache of the Month
mapicon.png Past Winners Map

LonelyCache.png Lonely Cache Game
mapicon.png Current Map
26.png Scoreboard
11.png Submit Report

rescueiconsm.png Cache Rescue
11.png Submit a Mission

icon_community.gif Members
27.png Your Account
47.png Private Messages
contact_blue.png WGA Member Map
Geocaching_LIVE_poweredby_16.png GC.COM Authorization

icon_members.gif News
tree-T.gif Topics
tree-T.gif Archives
tree-L.gif Submit News

image_cultured.png Photo Gallery
tree-T.gif Updates
tree-L.gif Popular

shield.png Fun Stuff
28.png Recent Logs
TB.gif Picnic to Picnic TB Race Standings
TB.gif WGA Hauler

49.png Board of Directors
 
Contact Us

 
Facebook

Wisconsin Geocaching Association

 
Follow Us

Twitter Button

 
Subscribe to Newsletter

Subscribe to our mailing list

* indicates required
 
Geocaching.com Search
View Search Syntax
 
COTM
Winner -
July 2014 Northern Zone:
Call Box

Winner -
July 2014 Northeast Zone:
Twisted Metal

Winner -
July 2014 West Central Zone:
The Island

Winner -
July 2014 South Central Zone:
Puzzle of Books

Winner -
July 2014 Southeast Zone:
Make do with what you have

Winner -
July 2014 Series of the Month:
Door County Barn Quilt Series


More Info >>>

 
 
Wisconsin Geocaching Association: Forums
 

 

View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Poll
What is your opinion of logging a "found it" on a cache where the logger has not solved the puzzle?
This is ok.
37%
 37%  [ 27 ]
This is not ok.
29%
 29%  [ 21 ]
Other answer not listed.
33%
 33%  [ 24 ]
Total Votes : 72


Author Message
CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8223
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

gotta run wrote:
Well, there are fewer puzzles for everyone to fret over in the Green Bay area now. Did a bunch of archiving today for various reasons.


DUUUHHHHH!!!!!! There goes 5 puzzles solved / not found. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Oh well - that means I better solve some more for the next trip north.
 
View user's profile Send private message
-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

CodeJunkie wrote:
gotta run wrote:
Well, there are fewer puzzles for everyone to fret over in the Green Bay area now. Did a bunch of archiving today for various reasons.


DUUUHHHHH!!!!!! There goes 5 puzzles solved / not found. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Oh well - that means I better solve some more for the next trip north.


Well at least we know you solved em wink
 
View user's profile Send private message
marc_54140
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-28
Posts: 2631
Location: Little Chute

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

gotta run wrote:


Yet it is OK to hand a bus full of people a spreasheet of puzzle coordinates? Yes, I am making an assumption here, having not gone on a tour, but it is a reasonable assumption based on reading many logs, talking to people, and seeing the posted details for tours. Maybe I am wrong and everyone on that bus will come with some good-faith effort at solving the puzzles.



Who is handing out the spreadsheets? I did not get one!

Yes, you are making an assumption. Perhaps you should come down off that high chair, and come on a Tour, just once. Be surprised what goes on.....

(Actually, we spend a lot of time discussing how to write our 'Found it" logs. And where to have lunch! Laughing Shocked Cool Rolling Eyes )
 
View user's profile Send private message
AstroD-Team
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-19
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

marc_54140 wrote:

Who is handing out the spreadsheets? I did not get one!

Yes, you are making an assumption. Perhaps you should come down off that high chair, and come on a Tour, just once. Be surprised what goes on.....

(Actually, we spend a lot of time discussing how to write our 'Found it" logs and where to have lunch Laughing Shocked Cool Rolling Eyes )


We do spend a lot of time figuring out what and where on the lunch part! Smile Probably the best part of "bus tour" caching!

I know some of those lunches I went on were "working lunches" too - everyone bringing print outs of puzzles and ideas and trying to group think possible ideas to solutions.

_________________
It is those whose case is weak who make the most clamour. Pier Anthony 
View user's profile Send private message
sweetlife
WGA Board Member
WGA Board Member



Joined: 2005-01-17
Posts: 2541
Location: Mountain, WI

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

even sitting around a table "helping" with puzzle caches, I would not feel its right to help with puzzle "a", "b", "c" and put no input into puzzle "d" but still log it with the group. This is why we don't usually cache with a group. Don't even feel it would be right to sign a log after someone else got the "found it".
 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
marc_54140
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-28
Posts: 2631
Location: Little Chute

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

seldom|seen wrote:


If your perception is that I am a horse's arse for expecting people to make an effort to solve my puzzles before they go a hunting, so be it. If you, on the other hand, tend to agree that an effort should be made and I have a right to defend my views, that's good to. If all that comes out of this is a fence-sitter or two giving it a second thought the next time they read, '2020 Puzzle Bus Tour, climb abord and clear the valley of pesky ?'s' then I've accomplished something.


No, Alex, I do not preceive you as a horse's ass. And I am sorry if you think that. I think you are an interesting individual. A wonderful addition to the human stew.......

However, you are as stubborn as a mule, when it comes to how geocaching should work. Well, to each their own view points and opinions.

And sometimes your defense of your views come across more as 'this is the way you should do it', and so I must protest.

I would consider meeting you half way, but I'm busy organizing those pesky bus Tours. Cool
 
View user's profile Send private message
gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

marc_54140 wrote:

Yes, you are making an assumption. Perhaps you should come down off that high chair, and come on a Tour, just once. Be surprised what goes on.....


Can't find my high chair...or even my high horse. But I did find my rocking horse! Ah, memories....


Image
 
View user's profile Send private message
Johnny Cache
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-08-30
Posts: 304
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

AstroDon wrote:
Can someone explain to me how one person's experience can have such a profound effect on another's experience?

gotta run wrote:
I do know it with geocaches it bugs me. 'Bout all I can tell you.

gotta run - Do you go after FTF’s? I know a few people that chase them down and are quite proud of their numbers. I’m wondering if you feel a cache like the following, cheapens the caching experience for those people? Does it bug you?

“EVERYONE WHO PHYSICALLY REACHES THE CACHE CAN LOG AN FTF. If you are with a caching party and log it "in absentia" you cannot log an FTF, but you can log the find.”

What about a cache that allows multiple logs after only finding one cache? Sounds a lot like the temporary cache argument. You know this one. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=c74c3c55-de18-4c54-a1df-1ea865b719b1&log=y&decrypt= Does it cheapen the experience for other cachers? Does the value of a smiley get diminished by this practice? Does it bug you?


Neither of those bother me one bit as neither takes away from the experience I had getting an FTF or logging the cache. And just like a puzzle cache, it was my solve that I remember. If someone logs the find and doesn't solve it, it has no impact on my sense of accomplishment with that puzzle or experience in finding the actual cache. I understand it bugs you. I guess we’re wired differently.

You know the one thing I keep seeing over and over in this thread is respect for each other. Puzzle CO’s can be shown that respect by solving the puzzle and displaying some appreciation in the log. There’s no denying that and it makes sense to me. But I’ve said before that in order to be given respect, you need to show it as well. I feel that no respect is shown to CO’s of P&G’s and especially those who find them, when comments such as these are posted:

October 25, 2009 by gotta run (1628 found)

Since no one is even making a cursory effort to do the simple additional logging requirements, the hell with it. Cache has been removed. Lazy cachers ruined it for everyone else (as usual).

February 24 by gotta run (1628 found)

Reducing our maintenance burden. This one has run its course. Rule changes to ALRs really forced changes to this cache that made it bear little resemblence to the idea it originally was. Bring on the park and grabs that the dumbest and laziest people can find.


And you think 3hawks has anger management issues? More pots and kettles.
 
View user's profile Send private message
gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:52 am Reply with quote Back to top

Johnny, you're really grasping at straws with the FTF cache analogy; that's the way the CO designed the cache and that's exactly my point.

Regarding the logs on our owned caches you point out--yeah, I admit I got pretty annoyed about the fact that the change to the ALR rules a while back had people jumping on those two caches to log them as now-traditional caches as fast as they could with TFTC-type logs. We tried to restructure one as a Challenge, but it was just pointless and caused too much confusion for finders so we decided to take it down. Were my logs unnecessarily saracastic? In retrospect, probably. (Then again, who would really ever know unless they're audting our archived caches?)

If you keep spending time researching my writings, you will undoubteldy find plenty more upset, sarcastic, or angry logs and forum threads and facebook posts and emails and letters to the editor and...well, you get the point. I know I could never run for public office. And since I don't have time or inclination to audit all your cache logs to mix up a pot of mud of my own, I'll just quote from this thread:

gotta run wrote:
I do not claim to be perfect or anywhere near it.


However, my imperfections and inconsistencies do not negate the fact that

gotta run wrote:
I have a right to continue advocating my point of view
as do you.

Lastly, I already publicly apologized to 3Hawks, so I'm surprised to see you bring it up again, particularly after the many cordial PMs you and I have had on this topic. Oh well. Keep it in your pocket to use against me again, because I'm bound to get worked up about something different sooner or later.


Last edited by gotta run on Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total 
View user's profile Send private message
-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

marc_54140 wrote:


Who is handing out the spreadsheets? I did not get one!


Well I know you had one -- not sure which puzzles were on it but based on your protective nature when lil cheeto was coerced to (thanks to some other nefarious cachers) and did attempt to nab it I would say you didn't want the contents of that list posted on the forums or floating around the bus. wink

It was pretty entertaining to watch you chasing him... Laughing
 
View user's profile Send private message
Johnny Cache
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-08-30
Posts: 304
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:23 am Reply with quote Back to top

Auditing archived caches? Are you kidding me. I'm solving puzzles. That's what you want us to do, right? You wouldn't believe the things you can learn when you're trying to find out "Where's Dave?" and "Where's Dave now?" I get so confused.

And trying to pass off your statements as sarcasm? Now that's reaching for straws.

Some people are contentious are others pretentious. And some, both.
 
View user's profile Send private message
CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8223
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

Johnny Cache wrote:
You wouldn't believe the things you can learn when you're trying to find out "Where's Dave?" and "Where's Dave now?"

I just figured out where Dave was then AND now. Of course I can't find Dave yet, but I know where he was. Does this sound confusing or what?
 
View user's profile Send private message
-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:32 am Reply with quote Back to top

CodeJunkie wrote:
Johnny Cache wrote:
You wouldn't believe the things you can learn when you're trying to find out "Where's Dave?" and "Where's Dave now?"

I just figured out where Dave was then AND now. Of course I can't find Dave yet, but I know where he was. Does this sound confusing or what?


your welcome wink
 
View user's profile Send private message
GetMeOutdoors
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-12-27
Posts: 344
Location: Wausau

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:58 am Reply with quote Back to top

Regardless of cache type, and knowing that there's no hard and fast rules to resolve this issue, I think it boils down to 2 very simple concepts:

Cache Owners: Do your best to design a cache that is interesting and fun for people to find, remembering that it is primarily a family activity. Be clear about your intentions and be willing to give grace at times when those intentions are not met, realizing there are overriding circumstances that keep with the spirit of the game (to find caches and have fun). Also realize that there is a place in the game for the ultra complicated and ultra rugged terrain cache (including puzzles) but everything in moderation. The same could be said of the other extreme, however, it's clear there is a better place in the sport for the lower end of the spectrum. (To accommodate children (primarily difficulty) and the handicapped (primarily terrain))

Cache Finders: Do your best to find the cache according to the way the hider intended it. Don't try to take shortcuts to find the cache that they clearly didn't intend you to take. Hide the cache exactly as found unless it was clearly tampered with by an animal or something. Don't share secrets about the hide or puzzle solve unless you know personally that the owner does not mind. Collaboration is part of the game and part of the fun but make sure your collaboration is honest and that you could look the owner in the eye in good conscience after logging a find.

I'm grateful for the people who have shown me grace as I've done some things that I found out or realized later was bad etiquette (if not just plain stupid). The personal conflicts that type of thing causes are NOT worth the smiley.

I think with the principles of respect in place as stated earlier in the thread, we still leave room for people to have flexibility to play the game according to the aspect that they most enjoy (finding, solving, hunting, socializing, etc) But before we lash out because we feel we've been disrespected, it's better to exercise grace first for the spirit of the game and the community. There will ALWAYS be the lazy person, the guy who destroys GZ like a bull in a china shop, the shortcutter, the number crazed, the... "cheater" (based on each one's personal definition of that word) but we still have a game. We could let those people ruin the game or move on. I guess it's up to us to do our best not to be "that guy".

The best thing about this sport is it's variety. There are SO many aspects to enjoy (or ignore). Some people really get excited about jeeps, other have no idea what that even is. Some about the planning, others the actual finding, others the stats, or maybe the solving, or hiding, coin collecting, historical and geographical research, spending time outdoors with the family, seeing new places, trading swag, or even just the grass roots of hunting and finding. Each one in this thread has made contributions to a variety of these areas and the game would not be as rich as it is without that diversity.

We have to be careful though that we don't let the thing that excites us become the defining aspect for those around us. Because we enjoy doing it that way doesn't mean the next person does and be willing to exercise grace in that area - especially when we realize the aspect we enjoy is to an extreme end of the bell curve. The more extreme we become, the more grace we must be willing to show (because less and less of the population will fall in line with that aspect).

The conflict enters in when people feel slighted or cheated because of the actions of another cacher. My guess is that most of these incidents are usually a misunderstanding and that's where grace comes in to play. Of course, if we approach the sport with an attitude of mutual respect, it will only become greater with more quality and more fun.

Have I screwed up in many of these areas? You bet! Have I mastered all of them and become everyone's favorite geocacher - absolutely not! But I share these ideas as principles I will dedicate myself to working on for the sake of the game and everyone else's fun. And if others want to join me, that's fantastic. I'll probably still tick someone off along the way but I will do my best to make that minimal.

I guess if we all followed this practice we wouldn't have to talk as much about rules and restrictions. Let's all cut each other some slack and remember what's important here - each other.

And by all means, if I tick you off, PLEASE TELL ME! Because if I don't know, I can't do it better the next time. I would much rather be called to the carpet than have someone hold a grudge and ruin their experience as well.
 
View user's profile Send private message
gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

Johnny Cache wrote:
Auditing archived caches? Are you kidding me.


Neither of the two archived caches of ours from which you pulled those logs are puzzles to solve. I stand by my assertion but feel free to keep arguing your case if you'd like. Regarding the original topic, I have made my arguments and have nothing more to say on the matter.

Again, I am neither perfect nor perfectly consistent. In fact, there's been only one person in our history who was perfect and, although his initials were also JC, he does not post to these forums.
 
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:       
Post new topic   Reply to topic

View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001-2008 phpBB Group
:: Theme & Graphics by Daz :: Ported for PHP-Nuke by nukemods.com ::
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
 
Forums ©
 
Legal Notice | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Parental Consent Form | contact | Comments ]

All content © 2013 Wisconsin Geocaching Association, except comments and forum entries which are property of their posters.

The Groundspeak Geocaching Logo is a registered trademark of Groundspeak, Inc. Used with permission.
 


Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the WGA Terms of Use


Distributed by Raven PHP Scripts
New code written and maintained by the RavenNuke™ TEAM


(Original PHP-Nuke Code Copyright © 2004 by Francisco Burzi)
Page Generation: 0.13 Seconds

:: fisubice phpbb2 style by Daz :: PHP-Nuke theme by www.nukemods.com ::
:: fisubice Theme Recoded To 100% W3C CSS & HTML 4.01 Transitional & XHTML 1.0 Transitional Compliance by RavenNuke™ TEAM ::

:: W3C CSS Compliance Validation :: W3C HTML 4.01 Transitional Compliance Validation :: W3C XHTML 1.0 Transitional Compliance Validation ::