Thoughts on the budget repair bill and protests in Madison.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:31 am

TyeDyeSkyGuy wrote:

Captain and Mate wrote:

In the grand scheme of things, this is minor, but WTMJ 4 news just reported that the new estimate for capitol damage repair is $350,000. Still quite a bit, but a far cry from the $7.5 million estimate from yesterday. Just sayin'...

That's the cost for gov workers to fix it. I'd do it for half that. Very Happy

Can I hold the ladder for you?

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:48 am

Captain and Mate wrote:

TyeDyeSkyGuy wrote:

Captain and Mate wrote:

In the grand scheme of things, this is minor, but WTMJ 4 news just reported that the new estimate for capitol damage repair is $350,000. Still quite a bit, but a far cry from the $7.5 million estimate from yesterday. Just sayin'...

That's the cost for gov workers to fix it. I'd do it for half that. Very Happy

Can I hold the ladder for you?

Myself and three others will stand nearby and watch the work.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:57 am

I think we're ready to submit a bid for the job! Laughing

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:17 am

Maybe it's one of those "no-bid" contracts. Shocked

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:52 am

Maybe some of the Republican Senators could help...they apparently don't have a lot to do right now. And they could set a standard as "leaders" in easing the budget crunch Twisted Evil

By the way, I haven't seen anything in the media...will the Governor's budget proposal effect the benefits and salaries of the Governor himself, the Senate and the Assembly??? They are, after all, public employees Rolling Eyes

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:40 am

(pulls thumb and index finger off tongue)

I've stayed way clear of this debate centered largely around the contextual and often very personal issues of salary, compensation and worth of public employee service. It is clear that I will not win any arguments with any of you on the other side. All I will say is that my father who worked diligently for the UW-M as the Chief Mechanical Engineer for 20 plus years, and was the sole bread winner, was not a wealthy man. That or my mom just thought we liked eating beef tongue, sorghum sandwiches and braunschwiger as kids. I remember a distinctly lean childhood, but he made it work and put in his time. Thankfully he retired and wasn't let go as is so often the case and certainly will be with many public employees near retirement and a means to shed pensions.

But that's not the primary issue at hand and these pitted arrangements from both sides of the middle class against each other drive me nuts, because most Americans get caught up in the details when the perspective necessary to understand the driving force is a few steps back. We live in an oligarchical collectivist state where wealth is slowly and inexorably atrophying to the top tier through corporate manipulation of legislation and media. At some level, all politicians are corrupt and beholden to those who buy their office, including those who get boatload of cach from Unions. Guess what, they are Democrats and Republicans alike. That's the broken system and what we should be fighting, not trying to justify the actions of either. Look at the stats...

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

WGA Member Joined: 2007-11-26 Posts: 3258

s|s, I agree with your post to a point--a key reason the Roman empire fell was a widening gap between the rich and the poor. But I had to roll my eyes at the "oligarchical" reference. That's straight out of anti-Walker rhetoric. Google it and Walker shows up in the top 5 results. You can do better than that, man!

My take on the gap is quite a bit different, however. Yes, power corrupts, and politicans from both parties are not immune to this. But let's look at the other end of the spectrum. We have created a dependent class based on an ever-increasing number of, and amount of, entitlement programs. There seems to be absolutely no end to these and any attempt to curtail their growth is met with a tremendous hue and cry.

Think the current budget battle in Madison is a big brouhaha? Just wait until we gotta tackle social security and other problems. Unfortunately, our solution is not to have a solution, but simply to pass problems off to the next generation, print more money, and hope for some magic--all the time being told by blowhards like Michael Moore that it's all a made-up problem.

I see no way of fixing this problem. We are addicted to suckling off the public teat. It's "free from the government," right?

Well, right now, the top 5 percent of weatlhy pay 60% of the taxes in this country and the top 1 percent continue to pay a higher percentage of the total each year. Meanwhile, about half of the population pays no income taxes at all. That means we're at a point where more people are getting from the goverment than give to it. Why would they want it to change? Of course it's unsustainable, but only after the system collapses will we collectively and finally realize that fact.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:17 pm

SS, thanks for the link with cited sources. There has been a lot of comparisons made over the last few weeks but I haven't seen many, if any, of them site their sources.

For full disclosure, my wife is a teacher and I work in the private sector.

<soapbox>
One thing my MBA classes did teach me was that any statistic can be presented in any way that supports a particular view. The big difference in understanding statistics is knowing what the data represents, how it was collected and from where it was collected. Even when you have this information, continue to question the data and the methods. You may find something you missed.

I have seen examples of salary comparisons done on a very wide set of data. Just saying that the average salary of a public employee does not match the average salary of a private employee is like comparing fruit to vegetables. You need to drill down into the data a little deeper to find that fruit that has enough vegetable characteristics for a fair comparison. Take the tomato, it's a fruit but it is used mainly in combination or in the same way as a vegetable would be. When was the last time you asked for a nice slice of peach on your ham and cheese sandwich?

Let's take a small example of a High School Statistics Teacher. You should be able to find a private employee statistician with the same education level and years of experience to compare to that teacher and I would consider that valid.

</soapbox>

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:16 pm

Here's a little music video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OoaQVzvPUPQ#at=66

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:19 pm

bartrod wrote:

By the way, I haven't seen anything in the media...will the Governor's budget proposal effect the benefits and salaries of the Governor himself, the Senate and the Assembly??? They are, after all, public employees Rolling Eyes

This is interesting. I know for fact that Walker while County Executive in Milwaukee gave back $370,000 of his salary back to the county. I don't know if the 'bill' includes any cuts to the governor, but from his past history he probably will. It is kind of hard to attack him on this issue.

WGA Member Joined: 2007-11-26 Posts: 3258

seldom|seen wrote:

We live in an oligarchical collectivist state where wealth is slowly and inexorably atrophying to the top tier through corporate manipulation of legislation and media.

Welfare State: Handouts Make Up One-Third of U.S. Wages: http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508.

"Even as the economy has recovered, social welfare benefits make up 35 percent of wages and salaries this year, up from 21 percent in 2000 and 10 percent in 1960."

It is unsustainable growth.

So...how do you propose we fix it?

"Tax the rich" even more?

To what end?

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:56 am

gotta run, you asked, "So...how do you propose we fix it?"

How about actually making corporations prove they created jobs with the tax breaks? Doesn't your data go against the notion that jobs are actually created? If the tax breaks are working, why did we go into the "Great Recession" during the Bush administration when all the past tax breaks occurred? I think jobs are more than likely "replaced" and these corporations are only required to report on hiring rather than net job gains.

Just as all of you union bashers don't want your taxpayer money going into political views you don't support, I think it is only fair that many of us also don't want our taxpayer's dollars to go to corporations that utilize accounting tricks and really do not create jobs.

I believe being a good steward of OUR money should go both ways and corporations should be required, BY LAW, to show that not one penny of tax payer money went towards executive salary, profit, lobbyists, advertising, golden parachute plans, stock options or bonuses AND actually created NET job gain in a FTE. (so no replacing full-timers with part-timers just so you have more heads). After they report truthfully, we can determine if the cost per created job is worth the tax break to see if the incentives should continue.

This is a win-win for both of us. You don't have to pay for public employee's lobbying efforts and I don't have to pay for big business lobbying efforts. Or is this somehow going to hurt or recovery efforts if we make corporations accountable for the tax payer's dollar by not giving out 39% raises to CEOs that take my tax dollars?

I'd rather help the family living under the bridge quite frankly.