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Northwoods Tom
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-12-03
Posts: 632
Location: Washington Island

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting discussion.

First off, I would be somewhat confused if I found a cache without a log but I would let the owner know that I found the (a) container and replaced the log in my submission online. I would assume the log was missing and state as much.

Second, if the owner deleted my log, I would realize I have found the wrong cache (container) and need to return if I want to claim the correct find. I would hope for a response online or by e-mail that I made this error and would except the deletion as this is part of the game.

In the finds I have, I have encountered false caches or numerous containers as part of the game. People put in their own twists. This makes the game interesting. I don't think we should get upset about rules that people put on their caches, it's their cache.

The phone a friend or caching in a group is a choice people make and it makes the game in many cases easier for people even though I personally dislike the choice. I do admit to occasionally caching with the Mrs. but get more joy out of solving it or locating it solo.

As far as deleting logs, I haven't and I could have but that's something "I" choose to do. We know that there are people out there that log it without finding it. I refer back to caching in a group. Did they all find it or only one member in the group. It's their choice but not mine. I enjoy the fact that I located every single cache I have found. Even with my wife.
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm just getting my popcorn waiting for the "don't tell me how to play the game" cabal to chime in...mmmmmm....popcorn
 
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Northwoods Tom
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-12-03
Posts: 632
Location: Washington Island

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:13 pm Reply with quote Back to top

gotta run wrote:
...cabal...


Had to check that one out. Wasn't sure if I understood the usage Shocked

Darn, now you have me thinking about popcorn...
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:26 am Reply with quote Back to top

From the listing guidelines on geocaching.com:

Quote:
5.Geocache Permanence: Geocaches are placed for the long term. Geocachers will expect your cache to remain in place for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) will not be published.


Also from the guidelines:

Quote:
Geocache must be in place before you enable the listing. Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is enabled online. If the cache is not ready, either disable your cache page so that it won't be listed in the review queue or post a "Note to Reviewer" explaining special circumstances such as awaiting permission from a land manager.
 
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RSplash40
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-23
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

Northwoods Tom wrote:
gotta run wrote:
...cabal...


Had to check that one out. Wasn't sure if I understood the usage Shocked

Darn, now you have me thinking about popcorn...


If you can wait a little bit, my son will be selling scout popcorn in the fall so he can go to the big jamboree next year Smile

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labrat_wr
WGA Vice-President
WGA Vice-President



Joined: 2007-05-19
Posts: 6059
Location: The Wildside

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

maybe start with a call or email to the cache owner instead of a previous finder? Most COs will give out somewhat helpful hints if asked, some won't but a courtesy call to the owner may smooth things out a little more than giving it a quick lookabout and doing a PAF (IMO)

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lone_gunman
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-04-12
Posts: 1928
Location: The Grassy Knoll, WI

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

...or in this case, maybe marking the decoy as a decoy?

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What\'s life? Life\'s easy. A quirk of matter. Nature\'s way of keeping meat fresh 
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Putterizer




Joined: 2007-08-27
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The thing is though, as far as any of use know, no PAF was used to find this cache.
 
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sweetlife
WGA Board Member
WGA Board Member



Joined: 2005-01-17
Posts: 2540
Location: Mountain, WI

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Been following this for a while, just wondering are the coords getting changed each time the cache is moved, or it it just a vertical move?

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Putterizer




Joined: 2007-08-27
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

No coords changed and not just a vertical move. But the move would be within the accuracy of a GPS unit.

Also, the CO is not posting that he moved the cache or has it listed in the description. He moved it on his own as an "experiment".
 
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raslas
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-09-10
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Has anyone on here ever run into a cache hider that has admitted to moving the cache location around to different spots on the final because of cheating or an experiment? When I say cheating, I am referring to how one may call a previous finder and ask for a clue. A phone a friend if you will.


Quote:
Issue 2 is that someone placed a replacement log for him. From what I understand, he placed two "containers". One had a log in a baggie behind it and another didn't. So he had a decoy per se. The decoy was not listed or marked as a decoy in any way. One finder thought this was the cache and then placed a log there thinking that they were doing the CO a favor by replacing a missing log sheet. He then got offended when someone added a log sheet because they didnt sign the correct one, however, the decoy was not marked as previously stated.


From previous experience with this co I would say moving caches after someone finds them is a very common practice. This co has lots of placed caches but is lacking alot on the maintenance end so it is not uncommon to find logs that are full, wet or missing altogether. For that matter it is not uncommon to find the container itself missing. We have replaced many logs and containers for said co.

Quote:
Everyone plays their own game and challenges themselves in whatever way is suitable to them. I guess I could "whine" on longer but the best solution is to just use discretion when deciding what caches to search for.


Agree with the above statement and we play to have fun and this incident took all the fun out of it. So in the future we will use discretion when we choose which caches to seek rather then let this incident spoil caching for us.
 
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guidetoo
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-03-13
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

Ever think that given the distance from the satellites cloud cover gps signal interference that may it be your gps is getting the wrong data . thus saying its not their. but close to that point. and then to the cache owner is not giving a good location., to make things interesting and fun. but most of all one must look a little harder to record the find.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting discussion, and certainly allowed here in the forums, but we are getting closer to the edge of what is allowed to be said, and what is not allowed to be said. Here is a quick reminder of what we all agreed to when we signed up to use these forums:

"4. User Provided Content

You and not the WGA, are entirely responsible for all content that you upload, post or otherwise transmit via the Site. You agree not to:

(a) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, slanderous, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, embarrassing, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable to any other person or entity.

(b) Impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with any person or entity. "

This is not directed particularly at any one person, but I wanted to mention it before it got out of hand. Basically, it means that you can disagree with the actions of other members, and say so in very clear terms, and present reasons why you think their actions are wrong. However, you cannot get into name calling and that type of thing.

Thanks,

zuma

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:36 am Reply with quote Back to top

slbens wrote:
I had a deleted find on one of the caches in question. I went with a group of cachers during our lunch break at a local event. No one at the event had previously found the cache. No one told us where it was. No one phoned a friend. We spent a fair amount of time looking high, low and everywhere in between. Finally one person had an aha moment and found a container. We pried it out but no log to be found. We thought it odd and debated on whether it was a decoy. No mention is made of a decoy in the cache description. We went inside the local establishment and talked to the owner. He had seen us searching and knew about caching. We asked him if he was aware of the cache and we told him what we had found. He verified that we were right. That said, we replaced the missing log and went on our way. Let's see...what did we get for our "cheating" ways. A smiley, a deleted log, but most of all a good time with fellow cachers and lots of laughs. There's no prize for the person that hides the most, finds the most, phones a friend, doesn't phone a friend, finds the most difficult, etc. Everyone plays their own game and challenges themselves in whatever way is suitable to them. I guess I could "whine" on longer but the best solution is to just use discretion when deciding what caches to search for.


Hi Slbens,

I notice this is your first post, and it is a dandy.

Geocaching is supposed to be a fun game, and you are right to say that we all play it our own way, choosing which parts of the game are fun for us. There is no prize for placing the most, hiding the most or beating your head against the wall looking for a cache that is meant not to be found. When it ceases to be fun, that is a good time to quit doing it. Much better to move on to a cache that is fun.

zuma

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