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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8145
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm going to poll the audience on this one because I'm curious to see what both finders / hiders think.

Situation: I've had a hunch that with some of my newer caches people are signing the names for others. I've also had a hunch that people are making up the dates to fill their calendar grid.

My Solution: I published a cache and then changed the container type and vertical position (approximately 2.5') each day for the course of a few days. I also took pictures of the log to track the changes day by day.

Issue: I asked a number of cachers to verify the container / location of the day based on when they claimed the find.

Question: What are your opinions? I know everyone has one, so ...
 
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Walkingadventure
WGA President
WGA President



Joined: 2009-05-06
Posts: 2367
Location: Neenah

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Signed others names..pshaw who would do that ? I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Forge dates to fill grids, wouldn't doubt it at all either. The temptation to do so was big and the stress to find a cache on a certain day was too much for me so I gave up that quest.

Unique solution. Drawback could be someone like myself logging late and then getting the day off and the container/placement wrong

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Signals from space make me wander in circles

The posts and opinions shared here are solely that of the individual and do not reflect the beliefs of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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Todd300




Joined: 2009-06-05
Posts: 2393
Location: Menominee, MI

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I've gotten logs 2-3 weeks after the "found it" date due to a number of reasons:

1) Cacher is on vacation and finally logs his finds when he gets home.

2) Cacher was part of a team and later makes his own account and goes back on his team's account to check the log dates and record his own logs.

Don't jump to conclusions, CJ.
 
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billrwilson
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-11-22
Posts: 112
Location: West Bend Wi

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

im still getting logs from my cache that was visited during the cache bash. just got one 3 days ago. doesnt bother me at all.
 
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Lacknothing
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-04
Posts: 1880

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

The issue is not late logs. The issues is the date logged on www.geocaching.com does not match the date that the actual log was signed. Also, the signing of a geocacher name who did not actually find the cache themselves by another geocacher.
 
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Todd300




Joined: 2009-06-05
Posts: 2393
Location: Menominee, MI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

Ok. If the date on the site did not match the date on the log sheet, there is usually one reason for it. The cacher finally got around to doing late logs after a long vacation but was not sure of the date. If the difference is only a couple days, no biggie.

Even if there ia a big difference, the main thing is this - he still found the cache. He still signed the physical log. So who cares what date he logs it online?

As for signing other people's names, I see them a lot in group caching outings. EVeryone finds it and one person signs it for them.
 
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Captain and Mate
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-09-25
Posts: 293
Location: Burlington, WI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:54 am Reply with quote Back to top

We've had this happen: while logging caches from more than one day, we changed the date for the earlier finds and then forgot to change it back to the current date for the others. Since we almost always find and log on the same day, it was an easy mistake to make. However, with the current popularity of calendar black-outs, we understand why you'd have suspicions about people intentionally falsifying the date.

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\"Once in awhile you get shown the light, in the strangest places if you look at it right.\"
-Grateful Dead 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8145
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:15 am Reply with quote Back to top

Just to clarify - I'm doing this for NEW hides in the first 2 weeks the hide is out. Vacation, late logging, etc. are not the case here.
 
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Walkingadventure
WGA President
WGA President



Joined: 2009-05-06
Posts: 2367
Location: Neenah

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

Trying to be optimistic

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Signals from space make me wander in circles

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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3240
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:32 am Reply with quote Back to top

While I can certainly understand your frustration and that's great that you're trying to find a solution to the problem, I must admit that I've written the wrong date down before. Who hasn't gotten the date mixed up from time to time? Sometimes it's not so much as intentional as it is just being careless. I'm a preschool teacher so if I have a day off and don't get to do "calendar time" I may have any possible way of knowing the date! Wink

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Woodland3000
WGA Member



Joined: Dec 27, 2011
Posts: 16
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

Just to clarify - the cache was found late at might, around ten. The person that you kicked off your game logged the next day and it had the next days date. Not a big deal but obviously someone wanted to make it a big deal and make her feel bad.

I was along for the FTF. I carried my 2 year old son on my back through that swamp in the dark with a flashlight in my mouth shining on my feet with rubber boots on. I did not sign the log. I let the first person that got there sign my name for me while I stood and watched. I never saw what the container in his hand looked like. I don't feel bad about it or that I cheated.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5745
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:23 am Reply with quote Back to top

Since leaving the WGA Board, I have chosen to pretty much stay out of these discussions and hang out to congratulate folks or play pointless FTP games in the non-geocaching forum. However....

There are many things about getting older I have not liked. Feeling the aches after a long day of hiking in the woods. The deepening crease between my brows from worry. And there's the rub. One thing above all I have celebrated about age is this....none of us can really control the actions of another. We can't worry about that over which we have no control, which is basically the actions of everyone but ourselves. We might be able to have some influence by walking the talk instead of talking it. But that's about it.

There are logs that we didn't sign. If we cached with a group of friends, usually it fell to the finder to sign us all in. We have signed the wrong dates on logsheets. Comes from being retired and losing track of time. We have solved every puzzle on caches we've found, if not before the find, then before we log the "found it." But we all know there are others who don't adhere to that personal rule. So be it.

This is a game. Nothing more. It may have as many versions as there are geocachers, but it's still a game. All we can ever hope to do is go out, find caches and enjoy ourselves. We will never be able to control what others choose to do when they go out. I know it sucks when people want it so bad that they'll do things to get it, but that's not my problem. Even when it's my cache. If I have encouraged others to try something new because of a cache, even if they didn't "find it as the owner intended," I'm happy. I've learned, with age, that there ARE important things in this world for my energy and outrage. The geocaching habits of others are not one of these things.

Ghandi was a smart man. Be the change in the world you want to see. People are watching. If people decide to react, people will look at that differently than if you quietly go out to enjoy this game according to whatever your geo-ethics might be. Yes, I am reacting with this post, but I have also taken the words of some great statesman whose name I can't remember (age again) to the effect that doing nothing can be as bad as doing something. Disreali, I think.

Enjoy placing the caches for the fun you know others will have finding them, no matter their intent. Enjoy finding them in the same way. If anyone wants to discuss my comments, go ahead and email me. But this is all I'm going to say now and maybe forever on this never-ending topic.

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8145
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

Woodland3000 wrote:
Just to clarify - the cache was found late at might, around ten. The person that you kicked off your game logged the next day and it had the next days date.

Just to clarify - I did not kick anyone out of any game and the log did not have the next day's date on it. The bogus log I deleted was from 3/27.

Woodland3000 wrote:

Not a big deal but obviously someone wanted to make it a big deal and make her feel bad.

Just to clarify - I emailed the cacher multiple times to try and clarify the situation but my emails went unanswered.

Woodland3000 wrote:

I was along for the FTF. I carried my 2 year old son on my back through that swamp in the dark with a flashlight in my mouth shining on my feet with rubber boots on. I did not sign the log. I let the first person that got there sign my name for me while I stood and watched. I never saw what the container in his hand looked like. I don't feel bad about it or that I cheated.

Just to clarify - To my knowledge I've never questioned your log but am glad you were actually there to visit. It sounded like your group had a great time and that's what caching is all about.

I never planned for this question to get personal here in the forums and have repeatedly asked the specific cachers in question to contact me directly. Those emails have also gone unaswered, but they brought it to the public forums. In the interest of fairness I'm attempting to set the record straight.
 
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Todd300




Joined: 2009-06-05
Posts: 2393
Location: Menominee, MI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

CodeJunkie wrote:


Issue: I asked a number of cachers to verify the container / location of the day based on when they claimed the find.


CJ, this is nothing more than an ALR, at least IMO.

Like T & B said, it's only a game.
 
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Lacknothing
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-04
Posts: 1880

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think a litttle more clarification is in order. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I log my find on my GPSr and upload it to www.geocaching.com, the correct date is automatically posted in my field notes. So the reality is that even if I do not get to logging those finds online for awhile, they are still going to have the correct date because the date is automatically posted. The only way the date will change is if I physically change it.

So many of you are right in that we cannot control how some chose to play the game. It is what it is as much as it may frustrate some of us. There will always be geocachers who do not "solve the puzzles", or "fudge dates" to fill fill their grids, or even sign others names. I don't completely understand that last one, I will admit.

However, in the several Survivor games that are happening in the state of Wisconsin, this does become more of an issue, because those who are administrating the Survivor games are trying to keep the game fair for all participants. This can be quite the challenge when geocachers decide to do some of the aforementioned things in an effort to stay in the game. It really does take the fun and fairness out of what should be a game created to bring a little more fun and camraderie to the sport of geocaching. This is disappointing.

In this situation, to keep things fair, it might be necessary for the CO to verify finds as to not put any of the players at a disadvantage. If players want to play by different rules, that really does make it difficult to keep the game fair for all players.

Remember, anyone can log these Survivor caches as finds. For those in the "Survivor Game", though, there should be a higher standard and level of integrity in logging and playing the game.

Enough said. I am off to the beach in Hawaii!
 
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