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Mister Greenthumb
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-03
Posts: 2674

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Ralph. The pin wouldn't be that obvious when displayed. Give out something that looks good and promotes the interest in the series and the WGA.
 
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JimandLinda
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-08-14
Posts: 5338
Location: Rosendale WI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

You mean we should do ANOTHER shirt?

Do you know the shirt sizes of the cachers that will complete the challenge?

Do you have an accurate count of the number of cachers that WILL complete the challenge?

With 414 active WGA members, what per cent do you estimate will get 15 SP caches? Or 30 SP caches? Or 45 SP caches? Or actually find all the SP caches? Will we award these prizes indefinitely?

How much money should we have committed to being locked into SP Challenge inventory?

IMHO, I haven't been a big supporter of awarding ANYTHING to those that complete any sort of challenge in finding the SP hides. Experiencing each SP personally should be reward enough. I'm hoping that the relationship that we have initiated with the WI DNR, and THEIR support of the cache placements, is a big 'smiley' for the WGA. I hope it leads to more cooperative efforts with them in the future.
 
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BigJim60
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-01-02
Posts: 7148
Location: Auburndale, WI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JimandLinda wrote:


IMHO, I haven't been a big supporter of awarding ANYTHING to those that complete any sort of challenge in finding the SP hides. Experiencing each SP personally should be reward enough. I'm hoping that the relationship that we have initiated with the WI DNR, and THEIR support of the cache placements, is a big 'smiley' for the WGA. I hope it leads to more cooperative efforts with them in the future.


I agree. I don't need an additional prize to show that I completed X SP caches. How about some challenge caches instead?

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BigJim
There are three kinds of people in this world ... the wee, the not-so-wee, and the frickin huge. 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2390
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

I tend to agree with the Jims on this. I've never really understood the attraction of the paraphernalia of geocaching (or anything else for that matter.) The game is about the collection of experiences, not dust collectors.

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Dave and Julie 
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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19214
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

Everyone seem seems to enjoy electronic art (like the souvenirs), so maybe the WGA could issue links that cachers can put on their profile pages when they complete a level of SP finds, like the EarthCache medals or the WGA blue ribbons for COTM. No pick-ups or mailings or sizes to worry about, and even those who are less than honorable in their logging would not be getting anything of physical value for their non-efforts.

If there ended up being one overall final challenge cache for those who found a significant number of WGA SP caches, the names of those "achievers" could be listed on the cache page for that. They can be added easily as they complete the challenge.

An idea for a central location for a challenge would be Mirror Lake SP, and getting it out in time for the campout in May. One reservation I would have for that location, however, would be that caches often go missing in the Dells area due to the high volume of visitors, and caches of value are especially vulnerable. It might be wise to involve a long hike with higher terrain for that hide. You would have to really want it to go for it.

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more posts than finds... 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8206
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

I've been quieting watching the suggestions unfold and while I've heard some I agree with and some, some I'm neutral on, and others I'm not a fan of I can't help but compare this theory to the LCG prizes.

Back in the day the WGA was going to award "things" to the top scorers in this WGA sponsored activity to promote the upkeep of caches in WI. While the game has remained and is a vital portion of the work the WGA does (i.e. it does a fantastic job of keeping caches "fresh" in the state), the "award" portion has gone the way of the buffalo. I don't know the details, but I can only assume this happened because of lack of funds and the administrative challenges that go with it.

If we use the LCG as a comparison to what we're talking about for SP caches, how would the concept / administration be any different to address whatever challenges caused the LCG to lose it's "awards".
 
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Walkingadventure
WGA President
WGA President



Joined: 2009-05-06
Posts: 2615
Location: Neenah

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

I was all in for an actual, physical cache challenge until I read the rules again:

"Additional points to consider when creating a challenge geocache:

1. Challenge geocaches must contain the word "challenge" in the geocache name.
2. Challenge geocaches are listed as the Mystery/Unknown geocache type.
a. A Challenge geocache must avoid undue restrictions. Specifically:
b. Challenge geocaches based on a specific list of geocaches, such as those placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published."

All of the SP caches are owned by the WGA.

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Walkingadventure
WGA President
WGA President



Joined: 2009-05-06
Posts: 2615
Location: Neenah

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

If we did tshirts, what do we do when we end this specific challenge in 2 yrs? Group the tshirts together with the campout tshirts and try and sell for below cost? If we do shirts, do you get a bronze shirt, silver and then a gold?

Most of these ideas have merit but when you start fleshing them out, it gets mucky.

I am wholeheartedly in on this as it's been all I've been spending my time on for the BOD but how does this get played out?

The goal here was to work on our already strong relationship with the DNR and give something exciting to our members. Everything else is just blue icing on a cupcake- a delicious snack.

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JimandLinda
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-08-14
Posts: 5338
Location: Rosendale WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The other concern I had was when a cacher wears his SP Challenge award into a DNR ranger's office. The staff notices this, and inquires about it. Said cacher mentions that they bought it from the WGA.

Will the DNR want a cut? Will the marriage be damaged?

The DNR has said "OK" to cache placements in SPs. That's about the extent of their involvement. Walkingadventure and others have carried the load from that point. If we make some coin off the SP challenge, well...
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Walkingadventure wrote:
I was all in for an actual, physical cache challenge until I read the rules again:

"Additional points to consider when creating a challenge geocache:

1. Challenge geocaches must contain the word "challenge" in the geocache name.
2. Challenge geocaches are listed as the Mystery/Unknown geocache type.
a. A Challenge geocache must avoid undue restrictions. Specifically:
b. Challenge geocaches based on a specific list of geocaches, such as those placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published."

All of the SP caches are owned by the WGA.


That of course would be at the discretion of the reviewers. I should note though that other states have had challenge caches for partial completion and full completion of their state park series. I know that just because other states do it, does not mean we can do it, due to the precedent guideline, but I do not see this as big obstacle.

z

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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

sandlanders wrote:
Everyone seem seems to enjoy electronic art (like the souvenirs), so maybe the WGA could issue links that cachers can put on their profile pages when they complete a level of SP finds, like the EarthCache medals or the WGA blue ribbons for COTM. No pick-ups or mailings or sizes to worry about, and even those who are less than honorable in their logging would not be getting anything of physical value for their non-efforts.



Good idea on the electronic art.

This is an idea that has never caught on in the United States, but is a big deal in Europe. They often have electronic art for series and challenges, and people display it on their profile pages.

You can see an example here:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=86d3e612-d2fd-44bf-8c17-2f269432280f

z

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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JimandLinda wrote:
Walkingadventure and others have carried the load from that point. If we make some coin off the SP challenge, well...
\

I agree that kudos are in order for WA and the rest of BOD for working on this. I am just trying to offer some suggestions on how to make it a first class program. That said, I do see the pragmatic issues that WA pointed out in knowing how many shirts and hoodies to make, but then you would have the same issue with something chintzy like pins. That issue could be worked around in lots of ways, including limiting it to the first 50 people (or whatever number you want) to complete the challenge.

I do wonder why you think that the WGA needs to "make coin off the SP challenge?" It seems to me that the WGA should take the opposite approach, and spend a few coins to make it first class in all ways.

z
 
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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3581
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:29 am Reply with quote Back to top

We're talking about a nice pin, not some button that anyone could make in their garage. I really don't think that is being chintzy.

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BigJim60
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-01-02
Posts: 7148
Location: Auburndale, WI

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:39 am Reply with quote Back to top

So if we don't want the DNR offended by ur making a profit based on the SP caches, sell the patch/pin/hat/shirt for cost. Then if the DNR wants a cut of the profits we can honestly tell them that there is no profit.

Personally, I would steer away from shirts, mainly because of the size issue. Hats, patches, pins are all one-size items. I recently ordered two different pins for another organization. One pin cost us $1.85 apiece. The other one cost $1.35 because we ordered a higher quantity so that the set-up fee was waved. Patches can be made for a similar price.

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BigJim
There are three kinds of people in this world ... the wee, the not-so-wee, and the frickin huge. 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5983
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

I am also one happy to just explore. Heck, the trading cards in the Minnesota caches do it for me. Since the closest we ever got to completing their challenge was seven parks away from done, I can't say for sure what rewards they had. I also don't think, knowing some of the people who did finish it, that they did so for any reward other than to say..."I did it."

So while I agree with Zuma that the WGA has money they can spend, spending it on some tangible reward isn't the way to spend it. I think the electronic art is a great idea. Those who want to display their accomplishment could do so.

I also want to thank WA for all the work he's done to make this happen, which is the real reward for our organization.

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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