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houseofbrew
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-12-06
Posts: 178
Location: Bay View, WI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

the bill has already passed the house. http://www.wtoctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3572203&nav=0qq6bvqI

Chili
 
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Opossum
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-05-11
Posts: 210
Location: WI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

Geocaching is the use of an electronic device to find a location on the face of the Earth. It is no different than using a map to find a location, or word-of-mouth. The basic premise is the exact location someone would like you to visit is communicated to you, you visit that location, and let the original person know you were there.

So what is being outlawed with the virtual caches in this case, freedom of movement, or freedom of speech? Is this what we've fought horrific wars for, this sort of freedom? We can't even tell someone, "This monument has a lot of meaning to our country; it's at W321.789 N54.654." Shouldn't these select few in government, who oversee most of the public monuments, be happy that people are paying attention to them? Instead they're saying we can't visit a monument dedicated to the founders of this country, veterans, and others? Since we, essentially, are the government (of, by, and for the people), shouldn't we be able to visit the monuments we paid for, placed, and dedicated?

What if the monument is a headstone? Should we not remember those people too? Who says games can't be played in graveyards? That's not disrespecting the dead any more than disrespecting the living. Spitting on someone's grave is disrespectful. Being happy in a graveyard isn't. Most of us are sad that a person we've enjoyed knowing has died, but remembering the time we spent with them makes us happy. We tell stories about their character and personality, and often those stories make ourselves and others laugh--is that wrong? Burying someone and forgetting all the accomplishments they've worked for is disrespectful, remembering them is not.
 
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Mama Fishcacher
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-11-23
Posts: 468
Location: Near Madison, WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:43 am Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure our founding fathers are turning in their graves at this moment, knowing that more and more freedoms are being restricted each and every day. Pretty soon, we won't be able to go anywhere without our *papers*....
 
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Team Honeybunnies
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-05-03
Posts: 1029
Location: Stevens Point,WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

It wouldn't be such a big deal if we picked up our beer bottles and quit wearing goth makeup. But seriously, this is just another in a long line of government misdeeds "on our behalf". Something happens, a sign goes up. The white zone is for loading and unloading only. It is being legislated because small-minded people feel more comfortable having the government handle it than dealing with someone face to face.
When I was climbing hard, the state closed a couple of cliffs at Devil's lake citing "climber impacts". A study proved that we were some of the more responsible users of the area, and one cliff was opened, one remained closed. There was always talk of permitting us too, but enforcement seemed to be a hassle. There's always been talk of registering whitewater kayaks too. Why? There's no precedent, but they would fee us and the money would probably almost entirely go to hiring somebody to enforce the mess.
As geocaching becomes more popular, and it will, it will invite more scrutiny from people who can't believe we're allowed to conduct ourselves without oversight. It'll be something insane like what we're seeing in SC, or perhaps because we're pinpointing coordinates in potentially sensitive areas, who knows. The human imagination is limitless, and as long as there's an idea these days, we need a law to cover it. Thanks for taking my two cents. Put it in the WGA defense fund.
 
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Ms. WISearcher
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-02-12
Posts: 472
Location: DeForest, WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly, although frustrating, I can see the law makers point...(not that it makes it right!)

Our activity has grown to a point where we are not "under the radar" anymore and people should be seeking permission to place any geocache. I feel that if people would be asking for permission to begin with and educating people along the way we wouldn't be dealing with legislation like this.

Now I do not like that they are considering banning geocaching in that area...trust me, I know all too well what it takes to reopen an area once it has been closed...but I think that SCGA needs to get on it quickly and work collaboratively with government officials or they risk losing their rights to the area.

I know I hold the minority opinion, but we are a long way away from the days when we just do what we want where we please...we need to communicate, educate, and ask for permission!

ok, go ahead..throw tomatoes...
 
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Team Honeybunnies
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-05-03
Posts: 1029
Location: Stevens Point,WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

You're absolutely right that we need to be proactive. I'm sure it's one of the reasons this organization was founded. To give us a voice. It's just frustrating to see everything regulated in minute detail.
I'm not going to begin a screed against our government. I believe in it still. But one of the hallmarks of a totalitarian regime is running the peoples' lives for them in every tiny detail so that they come to depend on the government for what they think & feel. Sometimes I just feel boxed in in the silliest ways.
 
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Team Honeybunnies
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-05-03
Posts: 1029
Location: Stevens Point,WI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

OK. Sorry about that, but it really touched a raw nerve. Go out. Have fun geocaching. But remember at some point we will have to work for it.
 
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Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-06
Posts: 2008
Location: Waukesha, WI, US

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Fence sitter here. I have to weigh each side of the story, though we should be asking for permission to place caches in public places, the process is going to get bogged down. Besides they ARE public places and we {Well most cachers} have respect for the area, by keeping it clean, neat and things well hidden. I waited 2 months+ to get a responce form one place. Do we need to educate the general public more?

As for the cemetary issue. Hubby and I Often times just walk the old cemetaries to look at the oldest birth/death year on the markers and take time to wonder how they may have passed, what life was like then, etc. Is this disrespectful?? It is no different that caching through.

I'm gonna have a big fat sign on my stone saying

CACHERS WELCOME
Come find me, in my cache
"HEAVEN"
coords are N77 77.777



[This message has been edited by Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu (edited 07-11-2005).]
 
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Sean Connery
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-27
Posts: 63
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not sure if the lawmakers in SC are upset that people are "playing" a game in their cemeteries or if they aren't actually afraid of people with gpsr in areas with monuments etc. Unfortunately, in this day and age (post 9/11) people with gpsr's in certain public areas send up big red flags. As for games in cemeteries, myself, my spouse and many of our friends remember either being given assignments by our teachers to visit cemeteries and find and record the oldest grave, largest grave, most unusual grave, etc.

We defenitely need to take a proactive approach to educate both law makers and law enforcement about our sport. If we can quell thier fears upfront we may not need to be offically regulated. However, it will take courtesy, respect, and not so common sense from everyone at all times. I hope we as the sport participants are up to the challange.

------------------
 
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Opossum
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-05-11
Posts: 210
Location: WI, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:23 am Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks to rpaske's post of GeoRadio. Episode 1 outlines some of the benefits of geocachers and graveyards, like finding lost graveyards and the history of markers without inscriptions.

I don't think posting the GPS location of any monument is a bad thing. Nobody is going to send a missile from another country with a GPS as the guidance system to blow up a statue. The biggest monument I can think of is Mount Rushmore, and the most sensitive is the White House. GPS coordinates can be taken secretly by anyone walking up to it, but all the bombings so far have been very low-tech, and very effective. Terrorists don't need GPSr units, or even a map. People need to use their brains and band together instead of cowering. If we all stood against terrorism and didn't act terrified we wouldn't be a target.
 
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