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wzbt03
WGA Friend



Joined: 2003-02-02
Posts: 736
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

What would happen if they eliminated all counting of cache numbers?
Lets say Geocaching.com would no longer keep track of your numbers and the only satifaction would be your own personal knowledge of how many and which ones you did.

Some would argue that this is a "sport" and the numbers are important in some way.
Others would argue that it is not a "sport" but a leisure activity. I mean face it, anyone could get whatever numbers they wanted if they had time and resources (gas, vehicle etc.) to just hunt caches. All you really need is a GPS and time. How many sports revolve around two requirements - leisure time and a piece of equipment.
Are the top people in the numbers game more gifted in any way then those with the lowest numbers, probably not.

I realize that many will have opinions on this and they all count as much as mine or anyone elses.

So I will give you mine first.

Many of the not so great caches would go away. People would not be interested in hunting micros on roadside posts (most likely).
The Events would be just that, events where everyone goes to socialize and have fun and the number of caches would be unimportant.
There would just be experienced geocaching people and those just getting started. After 100 caches or so, everyone would be about in the same boat.
Goals would be personal things (like they should be).

How many arguements in geocaching have revolved around numbers? Quite a few and from the very beginning when it was thought that some of the top people were not "playing fair". It happens all the time.

So eliminate those numbers..... right?

Geocaching would be much like hiking and camping. Some would have tales of the great trails and campgrounds, some would be fairly new to it. People would be attracted to hikes and camping experiences of merit or just to the activity due to its own merits. Lots of people do both.

Remember everyone that this is just meant to stimulate your thought process and it is not a rally cry to get the number crunchers defending themselves or others. The purpose of a forum is to have discussion.

[This message has been edited by wzbt03 (edited 12-30-2005).]
 
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greyhounder
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-18
Posts: 3342
Location: Fort Atkinson, WI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:39 am Reply with quote Back to top

I think it would be great if the only stats for geocaching were the ones that you keep track of by yourself. I get too competitive with number, and horribly grouchy when I see others bypass me.

Yeah, I set a goal of 500 caches for this year -- it's a personal goal though, and means nothing really. It's just what I wanna do.

More impressive to me is the length of time someone has been geocaching (Wow! A charter member -- cool!) or the quality of the caches sought (anyone who has done the Gauntlet is pretty special in my eyes!) or the quality of their hides, or the great stories they can tell of their adventures. Oh yeah, and the quality of the person (and that seems to be every geocacher I've met).

That being said, I've gottat get out of the house and go do find number 500.....[ Image]

Bec
 
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brkster
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-06-10
Posts: 551
Location: Racine, Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

Good point on that.

I also try to track down letterboxes in my spare time. The main reason I don't look for as many as I do geocaches is simple..there aren't anywhere near as many of them around. I keep track of my own counts of them, and have no clue what other letterbox hunters are doing. So far I have found about eleven. On the other hand, I have access to how any geocacher is doing, which is fine in the respect that now I know which other geocachers are around my general area, which makes meeting them that more meaningful. I look for caches because I enjoy doing it, and it's nice to see my counts automatically reflected when I log them, but I have no aspirations to compete with anyone except within myself. In fact, I believe that any given day, we are all great finders, let alone due to miss on some, no matter what our numbers are. I just try to be consistant, spending a couple hours on a couple days a week searching for caches. As for those with great numbers, I commend them for the time and effort they put into it. We're all different, and all have our reasons for doing this, and that's how life is in general.

[This message has been edited by brkster (edited 12-30-2005).]
 
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Bushwhacking Queen
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-09-30
Posts: 463
Location: West Bend, WI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

I actually know some people that geocache that do not log on the website. They go out, find it, sign the log, and go to the next. By no means are they as fanatical as I am, but nonetheless they do get out there, cache, and not log the find.

I like logging because it provides me an opportunity to practice my writing skills as well as my humor at times. It also provides me a measurement of my time.

As an athlete I like to compete. I've been competing since I was an embrio since I am an identical twin. My sister and I competed and were compared all my life. So with that being said it is like it is etched in my being to compete, even if it is self set.

I like to see how I move up in the world versus other geocachers. Does this diminish their accomplishments? Absolutely not! It does, however, fill that void since my twin lives so far away and competition with her is a little old. Image {{giggle}}
 
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The Snail
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-05-18
Posts: 72
Location: Jefferson, WI US of A

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I would be happy if I could only see my found count and not others.
Numbers make me schizophrenic. I gnash my teeth when a newbie passes me by in three months time. But strangely I don't know why. If I cached differently than I do now, it would seem more like a contest. And that is not why I cache.

But if the prize for Top Finder in Wisconsin is a cool crown, or maybe a shiny button, I'd be willing to change my ways.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I put shiny gold colored pins in most caches...that will have to do.
 
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wooden_nickel
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-06-09
Posts: 100
Location: Verona, WI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by wzbt03:
What would happen if they eliminated all counting of cache numbers?
Lets say Geocaching.com would no longer keep track of your numbers and the only satifaction would be your own personal knowledge of how many and which ones you did.
]



How about if it kept your numbers for only you to view. For you to track your own accomplishments. Not to stack up against others.

quote:
Originally posted by wzbt03:

I mean face it, anyone could get whatever numbers they wanted if they had time and resources (gas, vehicle etc.) to just hunt caches. All you really need is a GPS and time.
]



Yup.

quote:
Originally posted by wzbt03:

Many of the not so great caches would go away.
]



Very likely...no need to fuel the contest that it has become...In fact the finding of thousands of caches now is much different of an accomplishment than it was several years ago. The comparison is like apples to oranges.

quote:
Originally posted by wzbt03:

Are the top people in the numbers game more gifted in any way then those with the lowest numbers, probably not.

After 100 caches or so, everyone would be about in the same boat.
]




Thousands or hundreds...we are all really the same - geocachers.

quote:
Originally posted by wzbt03:

Goals would be personal things (like they should be).
]



I couldn't agree more. This is exactly what I have said recently on these forums. No need for the numbers to stack up on stats pages or boards.

quote:
Originally posted by wzbt03:

How many arguements in geocaching have revolved around numbers? ]



So true.

These are some great posts wzbt. Great for discussion with a direction at the real impact the numbers have brought to the game. The discussion of numbers and their effect on the game is an ongoing topic. To me is isn't about jealousy or anything. Heck I have cached for over 3+ years. I could have found thousands. To me, I always wonder why it is necessary to point out when someone has "passed up another geocacher in numbers". Is that person somehow better now? It is just this constant attention placed on stat pages and forums that seems unecessary towards accomplishing the goals that each of us make for ourselves.

I wonder if gc.com actually stopped recording finds if the number of active geocachers would actually drop off?
 
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greyhounder
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-18
Posts: 3342
Location: Fort Atkinson, WI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by The Snail:
But if the prize for Top Finder in Wisconsin is a cool crown, or maybe a shiny button, I'd be willing to change my ways.



Now that would make it all worthwhile!! I want a crown! Image

Bec
 
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hogrod
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-07-24
Posts: 639
Location: New glarus, WI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Bushwhacking Queen:
I actually know some people that geocache that do not log on the website. They go out, find it, sign the log, and go to the next.


there may be more people caching this way than you think, one of the caches i achived had at least 10 logs in the book without logs online. this is great if they want to do it that way, but for me it makes it easier to remember the caches ive done and check back on them to see if others are having as much fun or trouble as i had finding that cache.

if people want to play for numbers GREAT! for me its all about location/hide quality, numbers are just a side effect of the fun i have had.

 
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LightningBugs Mum
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-09-26
Posts: 1604
Location: Fort Atkinson, WI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by greyhounder:

Now that would make it all worthwhile!! I want a crown! Image

Bec



With a badger on top, no doubt. Image

I wouldn't mind if the numbers were private. I think that I would still drive my kids just as crazy cuz I do like reaching those milestones. But frankly, I don't really care if anybody else knows about it.

------------------
Team LightningBugs
* * * * * * * * * *
 
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Green Bay Paddlers
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-10-12
Posts: 346
Location: Green Bay, WI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The numbers have kind of lost their value with me. There is no baseline to measure yourself against other cachers. A couple of examples...

- There is no practical way to verify finds. The "honor" system in this hobby was gone years ago based on posts in the geocaching.com forums.

- Wasn't there some WGA "scandal" last year where groups of people were splitting up and logging caches they didn't find?

- Some people log event caches. Others don't... (let's not start that debate again...)

- Some people log multi-step caches as more than one "find." Others don't...

- Difficulty of finds.

- Do virtual caches count - or don't they?

etc, etc, etc, etc...

I like that the software keeps track of the numbers. It's fun to set goals for yourself. However, it would seem impossible to measure yourself against other cachers as you would be comparing apples to oranges time and time again.

I guess it all comes down to what you think this thing called Geocaching really is. Is it a sport? Is it a game? Is it a hobby? Frankly, Amy and I consider it a hobby. I mean, we could count how many miles Amy and I have canoed over the past 10 years and post it on some website. However - who could verify we actually did it? Who would care? How would we rank the difficulty of the paddle? etc, etc, etc...

I've found over time that there are two kinds of people in the world. There are those that can play a game for fun and there are those that need to win. I've learned to roll my eyes at those who are competitive and simply enjoy life. It's too short not to! Image

Smiles,

Jeff
 
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skarolek
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-07-09
Posts: 177
Location: Pewaukee, WI USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers:
The numbers have kind of lost their value with me.


Most would argue that I've never valued them ;-)

Quote:
I like that the software keeps track of the numbers.


I like that the software keeps track of my finds...I find myself paging back through them and rekindling the memories when I can't get out to do real caching for a while. Or when I get done logging recent finds. Or other times.

I could care less about the numbers but I like having the tracking database and I like having it be a community database so I can see others' comments about the caches.

Steve K
 
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Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-06
Posts: 2008
Location: Waukesha, WI, US

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Whao.. like part I was heavy enough!!

I like having everything available, that way each person/team can do as they please and count as they please. Kinda like when I mentioned to Team HoneyBunnies that they had more than they thought. I was worried that they didn't realize they could count each find on their first event, so I tossed that out there. Was neat to hear about how they tossed the ideas around but then opted to take just ONE cache for the entire event. The option was there.

On occasion I may hear the frustration of cachers saying that teams split and go out individually and find caches, but then count them as a TEAM!! Hey......Whatever!! More power to them. Single cachers, I am sure, might feel that absolute frustration with that. So??? Find a team partner and do the same. I have thought about myself and Digital_Dan. We live about 90 miles apart, cache apart, cache together and are a team but he counts his numbers and I count mine and NOT as a team. Could we change that and combine them?? Sure, but man that would be one heck of a time going back and resubmitting. Get worn out just THINKING about that. So.... we do what we do, others do as they please.

For Digital_Dan and myself...sure we compete against EACH OTHER for numbers. We also compete against each ohter in states cached in. I do counties cached in, we both do types of caches & GeoCoins we get our hands on, I do TB's moved and Dan does 4:1 Singles to Multis. So, having the availability for a website to do all that for us is WAY kewl!! (With the exception of counties)

Basically, OUR numbers mean something to US!! If we want to compete against other... we can do that too.

Another 1 cent!! Hey.. now that's 2 cents and I really AM broke after the holidays! LOL

 
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Bushwhacking Queen
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-09-30
Posts: 463
Location: West Bend, WI, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu:
Whao.. like part I was heavy enough!!

I like having everything available, that way each person/team can do as they please and count as they please. Kinda like when I mentioned to Team HoneyBunnies that they had more than they thought. I was worried that they didn't realize they could count each find on their first event, so I tossed that out there. Was neat to hear about how they tossed the ideas around but then opted to take just ONE cache for the entire event. The option was there.

On occasion I may hear the frustration of cachers saying that teams split and go out individually and find caches, but then count them as a TEAM!! Hey......Whatever!! More power to them. Single cachers, I am sure, might feel that absolute frustration with that. So??? Find a team partner and do the same. I have thought about myself and Digital_Dan. We live about 90 miles apart, cache apart, cache together and are a team but he counts his numbers and I count mine and NOT as a team. Could we change that and combine them?? Sure, but man that would be one heck of a time going back and resubmitting. Get worn out just THINKING about that. So.... we do what we do, others do as they please.

For Digital_Dan and myself...sure we compete against EACH OTHER for numbers. We also compete against each ohter in states cached in. I do counties cached in, we both do types of caches & GeoCoins we get our hands on, I do TB's moved and Dan does 4:1 Singles to Multis. So, having the availability for a website to do all that for us is WAY kewl!! (With the exception of counties)

Basically, OUR numbers mean something to US!! If we want to compete against other... we can do that too.

Another 1 cent!! Hey.. now that's 2 cents and I really AM broke after the holidays! LOL




Very well said, FuFu!
 
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