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jthorson
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-05-01
Posts: 847
Location: Pewaukee, WI, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The Saturday Night Live Church Lady is known for giving her negative opinion’s unsolicited. That is what I’m going to do here but not with the intent of embarrassing or accusing someone of caching like SATAN! Image

All caches are temporary. They are meant to blend in within their locales. When the cache has run its course, it should be removed and leave nothing but memories. I’ve seen a cache hiding technique that bothers me (and others) so I figured I’d get the ball rolling.

The technique involves drilling into trees, sometimes living ones, or drilling into park/government property. The technique is spreading. IMHO, it is wrong. There will be arguments that the trees will survive or, if it’s government property, hey ‘we’ own it.

But the thrust of my argument against such hides is one based upon perception. I can only imagine the reaction of park managers or the like who come across such caches. Madison was lost for a long time and not recovered without a lot of work for much less offenses.

For my next post, I plan on adopting the SNL character ‘Samurai Geocacher’.


[This message has been edited by jthorson (edited 01-14-2006).]
 
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Green Bay Paddlers
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-10-12
Posts: 346
Location: Green Bay, WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Couldn't agree more. Nobody should be damaging any live tree or anyone's (including the government's) physical property without specific expressed permission.

I can't think of any type possible logic justifying these types of actions.

Make all caches virtual - that's my solution! Image (How is that for adding fuel to the fire!)
 
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Crazy4
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-05-12
Posts: 22
Location: WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Drilling into DEAD wood to make a place to hide a small microcache doesn't bother me at all. Two of our better finds were done like that. It made it even more of a fun challenge as we were expecting and looking for the regular type of hide and actually walked on a cache several times before we took a real close look and finally saw it. The second cache done like this was by the same person so we had a better idea what to search for. It seems to be an ideal way to blend a cache in with it's surroundings and keep muggles from stumbling on it. If done responsibly and with concern about the ecology, this method seems perfectly legitimate.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

This type of behavior can threaten our permissions...
Dead wood is another story altogether so long as we aren't out there with chainsaws and dynamite.



[This message has been edited by Lostby7 (edited 01-14-2006).]
 
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wzbt03
WGA Friend



Joined: 2003-02-02
Posts: 736
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have always disliked it when I find these type of things happening.
Even the permanent marking on the bottom of trail signs should be banned.
I even remember a cache where the hider made permanent X and O's on playground equipment. Can't remember who it was but it really does not matter other then to say that everyone needs to be able to collect their caches and have things be the same.
 
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John Robie
WGA Friend



Joined: 2005-01-21
Posts: 99
Location: Kohler,WI

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:26 am Reply with quote Back to top

I would have to say that if we find a cache that damages property we should be informing the administration. They in turn can suspend the find.
 
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GrouseTales
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-18
Posts: 3399
Location: West Allis, Wi

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I agree that such damage is wrong, and threatens the existance of our sport.

When you find or hide a cache, you should ask yourself, "what would the park manager think of this cache". Many Park Managers and DNR search for the caches in parks under their jurisdiction. When they find problem caches, it makes geocachers look bad as a whole.

Geocaching.com guidelines do not allow caches that damage or deface public property. Drilling into a fallen dead log isnt a problem in my opinion, but damaging living trees or property is not allowed.

In these cases, I think we owe it to our fellow geocachers to leave "Should Be Archived" (SBA) logs on the cache page. I think the caches need to be archived before further damage is done, such as an public official witnessing the damage.

If you see such damage and don't leave a SBA log, you are condoning the cache (IMHO).

Good topic Jeff!

 
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Uncle_Fun
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-12-26
Posts: 265
Location: Franklin, WI USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Jeff,
This is a great topic for discussion. My opinion is similar to others in that property should not be defaced/damaged in any way. I also agree that if any part of the tree is alive that a hole should not be drilled into it.

Brian, in theory I like your Should Be Archieved post. In reality, I am not sure. Do I personally want to become the geocache police? I try very hard to build relationships with the geocaching that I do. And I would not want to jeopardize those. I do think that maybe it is our responsibility to email/talk to the cacheowner that has done something like this. If they don't agree or care to fix or stop the practice, then a note to the approvers or a Should Be Archived note is appropriate.

Just my opinion.
Uncle_Fun
 
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Flushingrouse
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-03-14
Posts: 362
Location: Sussex, Wi, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think Uncle Fun gets my nod in this instance.. Sometimes a "friendly" little email would be enough to make somebody think twice. This way, they would have an opportuntiy to change the cache to something more appropriate. I'd hate to see a nicely done cache in a great area just disappear without the chance to last another day... If it's not corrected or, able to be, then it becomes another situation and should be delt with differently...

My $.o2

~Bill (Team Flushingrouse)
 
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GeoPink
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-11-01
Posts: 1682
Location: Manitowoc, WI

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I will agree wholeheartedly with the last two posters.

I for one have three caches that, to the average cacher, may look as if I'd intentionally damaged public property. In each of these instances it is (obviously) not the case! While I can't go into details, I'll say that in one instance, I purchased an identical item which I modified and replaced with the one that was there. (Yes, I am storing the original to swipe back out for when that cache is archived.) The other two I've completely added something that in all instances looks as if it should be there as part of the "structure". It's not. It's my temporary creation that is the cache. I have not tampered with property that is the public's, yet to a novice it could seem that way. In fact I have recieved emails regarding each of those hides on several occasions asking about them. After explaining the hide in every case but one I have recieved nothing but positive feedback.

I strongly encourage cachers to communicate with each other before involving your approvers. This is your neighborhood. You don't call the police to ask your neighbor to move his truck or quit blowing leaves or snow into your yard. Likewise lets handle these issues amongst ourselves. If a serious problem develops that can't be resolved, then and only then should you burden our already busy approvers.

Now go play nice. Image

[edit]speelign[/edit]
------------------
Team GeoPink
- Jeff
Co-conspirator to make the world a better place...

[This message has been edited by arcangl7 (edited 01-15-2006).]
 
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