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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6077
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

...Does the concept of a "virtual" cache have a different intent there? I ask, because someone just logged one of Lil Otter's I adopted, and it would appear that he did the research online and said "thanks for the log."
Maybe he's actually here now, but everything in the previous few days was in Germany.

Before I write to this guy to see what he was thinking, I want to know if perhaps that's within the bounds of normal over there. Anyone?

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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Wis Kid
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-05-04
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Assuming he didn't actually go there (this is the only log so far in Wisconsin), you would be within your rights to delete his log or ask him to delete his log. He is probably engaging in a process call Armchair Geocaching, solving the questions for virtuals through internet searches (or other means). This practice is one of the reasons that virtual caches are no longer listed. Regardless of what you do with this log, please visit the site and determine a more appropriate question which cannot be found through an internet search. Note that information on the historical marker is listed verbatim on the Wisconsin Historical Society website. Perhaps you need to just require a photo be taken at the site, or measure the distance between the marker and the road, or count the fenceposts between the marker and the nearest crossroad. You get the idea. You could also convert this into an offset cache if you want. Just drop me a line if this is your preferred approach.

Remember that guidelines for virtuals require that the questions answered confirm that the person actually visited the site. Unfortunately this one doesn't pass the test anymore, thanks to our friends at the WHS.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Armchair geocaching seems to be quite popular with the Germans, though thankfully, it has not caught on here. There are a number of bookmark lists of "armchair caches," most of them German.

As a response, many owners of virituals have had to add explicit instructions on their cache page that it is necessary to actually visit the cache site in order to log a find. You would think that this would be obvious, but I guess it is not, at least not to those who like armchair geocaching.

zuma

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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6077
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I added the requirement of a photo until such time as we can visit the site and think of a different logging requirement.

Here's what I sent to our German friend.

"Menominee Nation

Greetings from Wisconsin! I'm glad you enjoyed doing the searching for information about the Menominee Nation, it's always interesting to learn about other cultures. Thanks for taking the time to learn about one of the nations that has been here before the Europeans and continues to care for its lands.

However, "virtual" doesn't mean virtual in the internet sense. Cachers are still expected to actually visit the physical site before logging it as a find. I would hope you'd honor that intent and change your entry to a "note" instead of a "find."

Thanks and Auf Weidersehn!"

Really, I personally don't care how people play the game, if they want to visit by out-of-body experience or whatever, so be it. I guess as a cache owner I'd like to more or less conform to the accepted practice, though.

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Trekkin' and Birdin' wrote:
I added the requirement of a photo until such time as we can visit the site and think of a different logging requirement.

Here's what I sent to our German friend.

"Menominee Nation

Greetings from Wisconsin! I'm glad you enjoyed doing the searching for information about the Menominee Nation, it's always interesting to learn about other cultures. Thanks for taking the time to learn about one of the nations that has been here before the Europeans and continues to care for its lands.

However, "virtual" doesn't mean virtual in the internet sense. Cachers are still expected to actually visit the physical site before logging it as a find. I would hope you'd honor that intent and change your entry to a "note" instead of a "find."

Thanks and Auf Weidersehn!"

Really, I personally don't care how people play the game, if they want to visit by out-of-body experience or whatever, so be it. I guess as a cache owner I'd like to more or less conform to the accepted practice, though.


Hi,

Sounds like an excellent response.

For more information on viritual virituals, see Four Windows, a viritual viritual with over 4300 finds. Check it out at GCF55A.

While there, ya can browse some of the bookmark lists on that page of viritual virituals. As you can see, the practice of armchair cachin is big with the Germans, but thankfully still pretty rare in the US.

zuma

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3 Hawks
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-09-14
Posts: 277
Location: Oak Creek, WI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I've actually logged "Four Window's" along with a few other German caches while I was laid up after knee surgery. "Go Trebi Go" was another web cam cache that I completed.

I'm not the biggest fan of "armchair caches," but they satisfied my caching urges when I was not able to get out.

Dieses ist mein Hut! That is the extent of my non-cursing German.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

3 Hawks wrote:
I've actually logged "Four Window's" along with a few other German caches while I was laid up after knee surgery. "Go Trebi Go" was another web cam cache that I completed.

I'm not the biggest fan of "armchair caches," but they satisfied my caching urges when I was not able to get out.

Dieses ist mein Hut! That is the extent of my non-cursing German.


In full disclosure, Four Windows is one of 2 armchair caches that I have logged. They were fun to do last winter when the snow was deep and the temp below zero. But generally, they are not what geocaching is all about. But it was something fun to try out.

I think if some folks want to do them that is fine. I also think that folks that have virituals have the right to insist that folks actually visit the cache if they choose to, and that is the preferable way to log a viritual.

zuma

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3 Hawks
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-09-14
Posts: 277
Location: Oak Creek, WI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Check this one out. What in the World Cache? by Ghosthunter (GC6D43)

I recommended this one to a geography teacher and his kids had a lot of fun with it.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6077
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Okay, another reason I want to visit Maine someday. Too funny! And it looks like everyone who's ever logged this one has never been anywhere near it. What a hoot!

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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Ratz and company
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-04-04
Posts: 73
Location: West Salem, WI

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:59 am Reply with quote Back to top

Sad

I can not imagine why that would cause such a stir. Geocaching is about fun and if sloving puzzles is part of the fun for people what difference does it make. Maybe people want to practice skill, learn something interesting, can't get outside, or would like to learn about a different counrty and can't travel. Who is harmed? Why must we complicate simple joy with rules! Geesh
 
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RSplash40
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-23
Posts: 6260

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

Trekkin' and Birdin' wrote:
Okay, another reason I want to visit Maine someday. Too funny! And it looks like everyone who's ever logged this one has never been anywhere near it. What a hoot!


Thats what I thought too, I found the cache after I visited the globe in july and I logged my find on that date. The owner sent me a nice message saying he didnt mind people just figuring it out and logging it but that it was nice to see someone had actually been there.

On some of the other armchair caches, they are listed as virtuals but aren't they more of a reverse cache?

And yes, I've logged 2 that way as well.

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Accosting pine tree\'s and rendering caches harmless since 2005.... 
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TyeDyeSkyGuy
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-03-18
Posts: 2231
Location: Kenosha, WI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:02 am Reply with quote Back to top

This is an interesting idea, so I had to try it. It took all of 30 seconds to get the info I needed from google earth to claim this cache.

I did log the cache as a find, as the owner states in his cache page that it's perfectly acceptable to do so, however, I logged it as a note, not a find. This will most likely be my last "armchair cache". Unless of course this rain never stops! Very Happy
 
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Mathman
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-31
Posts: 2529
Location: Weston, WI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:18 am Reply with quote Back to top

Check this one out. What in the World Cache? by Ghosthunter (GC6D43)


Trekkin' and Birdin' wrote:
Okay, another reason I want to visit Maine someday. Too funny! And it looks like everyone who's ever logged this one has never been anywhere near it. What a hoot!


I too have logged this cache. However, I WAS THERE and saw the globe in person. I do have to tell you it is an interesting place and very much worth seeing. The other information that exists at this site is also worth seeing. I think logging this one as an "armchair" cache doesn't mean as much as actually seeing this in person. As a virtual it is one that sticks out in my mind because I actually was able to view it.
 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2398
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:13 am Reply with quote Back to top

Just so you know, I don't believe those caches such as "Four Windows" ever met the guidelines. The review process was pretty loose back then, but how someone missed that the cache was located at a latitude of 90°N with Germany as the country is beyond me. Now, the Maine cache, on the other hand, did meet the guidelines. It just suffered from the same issue as T&B's adopted cache, that being that the question was too easy to answer without visiting the site. Apparently the owner decided to go with the flow and allow the armchair logging.

The only issue I can see with logging these is your own conscience.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

Deleted ANOTHER german armchair logger at my "First Baby" virtual cache.
 
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