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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The previous posting seems acceptable. I don't really understand the binding versus non-binding thing. I think it does make sense as times change so should the WGA's bylaws. Who would have ever thought that a Nonresident of Wisconsin would have ever been crazy enough to attempt the Delorme Challenge let alone finish it? Very Happy
 
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Jeremy
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-19
Posts: 3251
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lagrac wrote:
I don't really understand the binding versus non-binding thing.


Non-binding means that the results are only advisory... i.e. the bylaws wouldn't automatically change based on the results of the referendum. The Board of Directors would still have to vote to change the bylaws, and they would not have to follow what the membership wanted.

Note that we need the majority of the Board to approve the referendum before it can be held. To change the definition of "WGA member" (which requires a change to the bylaws) would require a 2/3rds vote of the Board.
 
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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'd be interested in the results of such a vote. It should be pretty evident that what I've accomplished in terms of Wisconsin Geocaching is in lines with the WGA Purpose as laid out in Article 2 of the WGA Bylaws, and hence warranting me WGA Membership.
 
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benny7210
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-04-01
Posts: 501
Location: Manitowoc,Wi,USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have a very easy solution to the complex problem.... MOVE TO WISCONSIN.
and become a resident. Brett is true the you are a closet Green Bay Packer fan?? Just throw away the purple jersey and wear the green and yellow jersey proudly!!

IMHO...I would say no to the referendum question.. just my 2 cents worth !!

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Trudy and the beast
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-07-26
Posts: 2375
Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lagrac wrote:
...
Furthermore, I'd like to see this matter be voted upon by the BOD as a whole...


The matter was voted on by the BOD as a whole, At the time the bylaws were adopted. If I recall correctly, it passed by a vote of 9-0.
 
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LightningBugs Mum
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-09-26
Posts: 1604
Location: Fort Atkinson, WI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lagrac, I have a specific question for you. As a Friend instead of a Member, there are only 4 or 5 differences of which I am aware in your status. These are:

1. Forum title is "Friend" instead of "Member".
2. Friends are not currently listed on the Members List or in the Stats.
3. Friends cannot vote in the BOD election.
4. Friends cannot become members of the BOD.
5. Referendums can be set up to include or exclude Friends based on the subject being voted on.

Other than these specific things, Friends can participate in the organization just the same as Members, including forums, COTM, etc. If I left any other differences out, let me know.

So of these items listed, what exactly are you looking to change by becoming a member?
 
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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think having the WGA Friend title versus having the WGA Member under my name gives people a false connotation. If I didn't know any better, and I saw that a person was a WGA Friend, I'd think that they were just visiting not really serious about caching in Wisconsin. To me, a WGA Member is one who participates in WGA sponsored activities, have demonstrated a desire to improve Wisconsin's environment (CITO for example), and has done ALOT of caching in the State of Wisconsin. These three things apply to me... I think, please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaking!!
 
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cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I would agree that a member need to live in Wisconsin, 3/4 of the year or whatever it is to have a valid Wisconsin I.D. card. Even thou I am also a member of both MIGO and MNGA. I joined those organization because of how close I live Duluth area and the Ironwood area and have a family cabin in the Keeweenaw. I have yet to find any caches in those areas.

What is my point of this post.....I dunno!

Just that it should be left they way it is.

If you change the membership, then do you change the COTM?? If I put a very cool cache up in at our cabin in the Keeweenaw should it be considered, no. Works on the same premise.
 
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Thraxman
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-23
Posts: 395
Location: Janesville, WI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lagrac wrote:
I think having the WGA Friend title versus having the WGA Member under my name gives people a false connotation. If I didn't know any better, and I saw that a person was a WGA Friend, I'd think that they were just visiting not really serious about caching in Wisconsin.
.

So is this mostly about the title? Or are you looking for voting rights, and/or the chance to run for BOD?

I don't think anyone looks down on people with a "Friend" status. The fact that someone out of state registered and is reading the forum and posting says a lot. Clearly that person has an interest in caching in Wisconsin. Consider that the word "friend" usually has very positive connotations.

Then again, that title could easily be changed. But are MANY people unhappy with being Friends?

As far as running for BOD, only residents of WI should. Period. The BOD deals with various Wisconsin agencies. I get the gut feeling the Wisconsin DNR is more likely to take a Wisconsin resident seriously than someone from out of state.
 
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Team Vaughan
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-07-15
Posts: 86
Location: Sussex

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Here are some points I have.

What do we vote on besides the BOD? And when we do vote you would never know unless you visited this website. No emails were sent.

I have been a member since July 2004 and don't recall any other things being voted on.

What power does the WGA have? They do not decide who, what and where you can and cannot place or search for caches. Thats for Geocaching and our state government to decide.

How many Wisconsin cachers are there? How many voted for the BOD (not many)? How many even know WGA exist?

Do you think non WGA Wisconsin cachers even care what the WGA thinks?

The guy has found 1000 caches here. He obviously enjoys this state.

Is the DNR going to ask to see our roster? Gee this guy is from Minnesota so NO caches in our parks! Lets be real. Anybody can use our state parks. Thats why we have them.

From what I have in the read the only thing the WGA does is over see events and work with the DNR. What harm can a guy from Minnesota do?

Do you really think we would vote in a foreigner to the BOD?

Whats the big deal? It's just a tag by his name.

Chris

I will now zip up my flame retardant suit.
 
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cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Team Vaughan wrote:
How many Wisconsin cachers are there? How many voted for the BOD (not many)? How many even know WGA exist?




EXACTLY!!! There are cachers from this region who have NO IDEA about the WGA. Now I'm not trying to steal this thread and maybe a new topic should be started, but this all goes back to what I have brought up before about the WGA being south-eastern part of the state. Maybe I need to change my stance on this issue about non- residents. I bet that this part of the state gets more non-resident geocachers from Minnesota and Michigan than we get from the Green Bay, Madison and Milwaukee areas.

I could go on here and really stir up the hornets nest but I will leave it for another subject
 
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elfdoctors
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-10-31
Posts: 417
Location: Grantsburg

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

cheezehead wrote:
I bet that this part of the state gets more non-resident geocachers from Minnesota and Michigan than we get from the Green Bay, Madison and Milwaukee areas.


....my county also gets the majority of its caching visits from out-of-staters. IMO, out of state membership is a good idea. Lagrac would understand more issues about geocaching in Wisconsin better than most of the membership (myself included). I would even recommend expanding it beyond Delorme challenge completion (e.g. fulfilling several of the following requirements - 10 counties or DeLorme pages, or 50 Wisconsin caches on more than a single trip, or perhaps even 10 posts in the forums).
 
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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I really appreciate the support that some of my fellow Wisconsin cachers are showing me. And to be honest, I don't really understand alot of peoples reluctance to allow me to become a WGA Member. To tell you the truth, I think by not allowing nonresidents to become WGA Members, this violates one of the WGA's bylaws:

Article X: Non-Discrimination Clause
The WGA shall not discriminate against people on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age, disability, sexual orientation, or any legally protected characteristic.


In my instance, my residency is a legally protected characteristic. I'm legally a resident of Minnesota, nothing else.

But it is all legal mumbo jumbo to me. I just like to cache!! Very Happy
 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2390
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Fortunately, state residency is not a legally protected class. Please understand that the issue is NOT Brett or any other individual. The organization was chartered and designed as an organization for the geocachers residing in the state of Wisconsin. Both Minnesota and Michigan have similar organizations designed to serve the residents of those states. Having this structure has worked remarkably well, as most of our dealing with the government have been at the state level, and local governments seem to have significant respect for a state-based organization as well. Anything we would do to diminish the state based "focus" of our organization will just serve to make things more difficult.
 
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Team B Squared
WGA Friend



Joined: 2005-11-20
Posts: 257
Location: Bark River, MI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:16 am Reply with quote Back to top

Thraxman wrote:

Then again, that title could easily be changed. But are MANY people unhappy with being Friends?


Not me, I am not worried about it. Personally, I don't think that the WGA should allow me to be a voting member. On the flip side of that, I don't think anyone from outside Michigan should be able to vote in a MiGO election, even though we have people from Wisconsin, Ohio, and Ontario, Canada who participate in our discussions more than most Michigan cachers.

I am in a little bit different position than lagrac in that I strongly identify myself with Michigan caching and MiGO. Although I grew up in the UP (about 45 minutes from Marinette and Niagra) and live here now, when we started caching we lived in the lower peninsula near Lansing, which has caused me to identify myself as a Michigan cacher. With that being said, I am now and will always be a die hard Packer fan, so please don't kick me out. Laughing

elfdoctors wrote:
I would even recommend expanding it beyond Delorme challenge completion (e.g. fulfilling several of the following requirements - 10 counties or DeLorme pages, or 50 Wisconsin caches on more than a single trip, or perhaps even 10 posts in the forums).


We do a fair amount of caching in Wisconsin, I just checked and we have completed 21 of the DeLorme pages, cached in 24 of the 72 Wisconsin counties, currently have 257 Wisconsin finds, and this is my 146th post. Again, we do not even come close to lagrac's Wisconsin caching accomplishments.

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