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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

As I understand it, the reason why permission must be attained before putting a cache in a State Park is so that if the Park is going to be performing a controlled burn or something similar the cache can be moved. Also, so that it is verified that the cache is not in a sensitive area. Well what about Earthcaches? Since there is not something physical to hide, does one need permission?
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I believe Earthcaches are really no different from physical caches when it comes to permission. If you need to provide notification (READ "get permission") on lands controlled by the DNR for example, the same permission is required for Earthcaches. In fact the procedure for placing an Earthcache REQUIRES permission be granted BEFORE they will list your cache. You will be asked to provide a name and contact number for the park manager granting permission.
 
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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the info. I'm working towards my Platinum destination. My first Earthcache is on public property, my next one will be in a State Park.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lagrac wrote:
Thanks for the info. I'm working towards my Platinum destination. My first Earthcache is on public property, my next one will be in a State Park.

I have my 3 placed and more than enough found but I still need to knock off two more states to get Platinum.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5763
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm in the process of setting one up in the Kickapoo Reserve, along the river. Sorry, won't be up by Saturday. I just got the go-ahead from the Reserve today and can't get down there to mark my coords before then. As I read the cache requirements, it sounds as if you just plain have to have permission to get them approved at all.

Brett, we just got back a little while ago from doing your Sugar Loaf one. Great way to spend our evening!

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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Buy_The_Tie
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-07-12
Posts: 2792
Location: New Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

For Earthcaches in a state park, a notification form is not required. However, it would be a good idea to provide one as a courtesy to the land manager.

Now, if you are going to set up an Earthcache in a State Natural Area, then special permission is required.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

The submission form ( http://www.earthcache.org/ ) requires the phone number and name of the land manager giving permission for the cache. So it appears that you are required to get permission for placement regardless of where you put your cache.

If you use state land, the state (DNR) notification form may be optional at the discretion of the land manager. I was required by the land managers to submit one for both of my Earthcaches which are located on state owned properties (one was in an SNA and one in a normal state park).

As Tie says the SNA's require a bit more work and notifications, so expect to submit a notification form as part of the approval process. The land manager of the "normal" state park wanted one on file just so that his staff "knew what was going on in their park." If you are placing an Earthcache on state property, I'd ask the land manager if they want the form filled out.

How did man ever get along before the dawn of paperwork and politics?
 
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AuntieNae
WGA Treasurer
WGA Treasurer



Joined: 2004-04-12
Posts: 3197
Location: Waukesha/ Greenfield/ Milwaukee

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

I will echo Lostby7's reply and add that my communications with the DNR have all been totally positive.

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Finding Flow in Nature - Earthcaches Rock!Disclaimer: This post and the contents of any links or images attached is the opinion of this poster and not that of the WGA or it\'s Board of Directors. 
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lagrac
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-01-22
Posts: 246
Location: Rushford,MN

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I really appreciate all the information about getting permission for my next Earthcache. It's just, in my part of the State (Minnesota that is) Geocaching is so un-mainstream, there are only 4 cachers in the entire county that I live in. I have a feeling that a DNR guy might have a false connotation when I say the word cache. I think to people that don't know what we do, cache automatically means looking for something physical.

It's going to be kind of odd requesting permission:

"Yeah, I was wondering if it's OK for me to do something that is going to draw visitors to your park and teach them something while they are there?" "I really won't if you don't want me to... if you feel people are smart enough already and that you don't need anymore park visitors, just let me know" Very Happy

Bureaucracy is so sweet.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Lagrac...my apologies, I forgot you were in MN. I'm unsure what the rules are for placing caches in MN. You will need to check with your local approvers for caches placed on that side of the border.

That aside the first part of my statement still holds true, and that is that the submission form clearly states that permission must be obtained and the phone number and name of the permission grantor must be included on the Earthcache submission form......

That said there are a few Earthcaches that have been published in MN, I'd drop one of the cache owners a note and ask for tips about the process......

As far as getting permission, I talked up the intent and educational function of the Earthcache and even presented the land manager a rough copy of the cache pages....it's usually a formality as from what I've seen the park land managers are more than happy to showcase their land and to be helpful in the process of educating the public.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5763
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm learning the ropes on this process, too. I got the initial approval, but hadn't realized that the Kickapoo Reserve is actually a SNA. So I just jumped through that first hoop and await an answer.

Hopefully, there will soon be reason to return to the lovely corner of our state that many enjoyed this past Saturday. I hear tell that someone else is working on an earthcache in that area, too. Cool beans!

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

There's a few in the works here and there. They seem to be catching on a bit. There was one which was approved this morning near Eagle. I too have another in the works....still awaiting some approvals....tic toc.
 
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Wis Kid
WGA Friend



Joined: 2007-05-04
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

With the increase in the number of Earthcaches being submitted, it is worthwhile to review the submittal process. Unlike every other type of geocache, once you submit an earthcache, it is not possible to edit your submission until it is published. This means that you need to be careful to follow all the rules when you are placing an Earthcache in an SNA. Be sure to start the process with an email to Thomas Meyer at the DNR BEFORE you submit the cache, wait for the response, and then be sure to submit the notification form and INCLUDE THE BOILERPLATE TEXT in the cache description. Otherwise, we get stuck in a situation where the cache is not publishable, yet we cannot edit it without publishing. I'm talking with the Earthcache people to hopefully get them to add an edit feature to their website, but I wouldn't hold your breath for this.

If you want to review the earthcache/offset cache submission process, see this post:
http://www.wi-geocaching.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=47593#47593
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3189
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

Actually, I was working on a flow chart this morning on the process of submission. There are lots of twists and turns and other weird steps that make submitting these different from normal geocaches.....I'll work with the WI reviewers on getting a guide set up for submitting a cache on private land and in local, county, state....state sna etc parks, as they all have differing procedures.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5763
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

With the one I submitted, geoaware sent it along to the gc.com site, and it just won't go live until I've successfully completed the approval process, which I'm waiting on right now. I've been able to edit it now and will easily be able to include the boilerplate text once I've got the A-OK through the DNR folks.

A flow chart would be really nice, though, thanks Lostby. And why the heck is it called "boilerplate text," anyway? Confused

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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