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marc_54140
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-28
Posts: 2631
Location: Little Chute

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

When you come across a puzzle that stumps you, there are two ways of getting help with it:

1. Contact the owner.

2. Contact other cachers who have solved / found it.

I feel both ways are acceptable. I use both ways myself.

And I know others do not always contact me for help on my puzzles.


BTW, one thing that is generally not done nor does it seem acceptable, is to post a request to a forum, such as this. I'm not sure why that is, but I've seen examples elsewhere where the requester is deluged with criticism for doing so.
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

Um, can you help me solve Marc's Treasure Box? I can't seem to make any headway with that one...

Just kidding.

I think that most puzzle cache owners do not want the actual solve of any of their specific caches being published on a public forum. However, if folks want to discuss general "methods" they use (a la marc's puzzle events and the various discussions I and many others have had with him on some of his techniques to solve puzzle caches) I am sure that is fine with most puzzle cache owners. And as many of these techniques come out, then the puzzle cache creators can try to build more puzzle caches that don't allow these techniques to be used to solve them! Twisted Evil

-cheeto-
 
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SammyClaws
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-04-27
Posts: 331
Location: Muskego

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

marc_54140 wrote:
When you come across a puzzle that stumps you, there are two ways of getting help with it:

1. Contact the owner.

2. Contact other cachers who have solved / found it.

I feel both ways are acceptable. I use both ways myself.

And I know others do not always contact me for help on my puzzles.


BTW, one thing that is generally not done nor does it seem acceptable, is to post a request to a forum, such as this. I'm not sure why that is, but I've seen examples elsewhere where the requester is deluged with criticism for doing so.



Of the puzzle caches we have claimed as finds, one we did not solve and another one we had significant input into the collabrative effort to solve the puzzle. The rest we have managed to grind out ourselves (even after the find). Normally, I start by trying to determine the relationship between the puzzle and numeric coords. For example do I see 10, 14 or 15 distinct separations; is there something in the title that hints to a key or a common coding method; what does the HTML code look like.

What I would like to know is what other techniques do people use to hone in on the solution to a puzzle? I would like some things to add to my bag of tricks.
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

marc_54140 wrote:
When you come across a puzzle that stumps you, there are two ways of getting help with it:

1. Contact the owner.

2. Contact other cachers who have solved / found it.

I feel both ways are acceptable. I use both ways myself.

And I know others do not always contact me for help on my puzzles.


BTW, one thing that is generally not done nor does it seem acceptable, is to post a request to a forum, such as this. I'm not sure why that is, but I've seen examples elsewhere where the requester is deluged with criticism for doing so.


Does the "Join a puzzle cache tour" fall under 2, or is that a separate 3?
 
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marc_54140
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-28
Posts: 2631
Location: Little Chute

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

gotta run wrote:
marc_54140 wrote:
When you come across a puzzle that stumps you, there are two ways of getting help with it:

1. Contact the owner.

2. Contact other cachers who have solved / found it.

I feel both ways are acceptable. I use both ways myself.

And I know others do not always contact me for help on my puzzles.


BTW, one thing that is generally not done nor does it seem acceptable, is to post a request to a forum, such as this. I'm not sure why that is, but I've seen examples elsewhere where the requester is deluged with criticism for doing so.


Does the "Join a puzzle cache tour" fall under 2, or is that a separate 3?


Thanks for reminding me. I forgot. Yes.
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I ask you an either/or question, and you respond "yes." I used to have a boss like you!
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

My wife yells at me for doing that too...
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ya, but I quit my job....
 
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RSplash40
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-23
Posts: 6255

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I agree, contact the owner, contact previous cachers, I'm not sure where this forum will fit but I hope it finds a niche somewhere, I don't mind having another spot to throw out ideas.

The problem will be not telling too much.

Marc, you should post your puzzle workshop sheet, the first page or two I've referenced a number of times.

"Ask yourself, have you seen this type of puzzle somewhere before?" is one I've hit a few times.
 
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TyeDyeSkyGuy
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-03-18
Posts: 2231
Location: Kenosha, WI

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

marc_54140 wrote:
When you come across a puzzle that stumps you, there are two ways of getting help with it:

1. Contact the owner.


And I know others do not always contact me for help on my puzzles.




How true. It's strange how many people do contact me after long periods of time, and say they didn't think it was right to ask for help.

GO AHEAD AND ASK! I won't bite. And as long as it looks like you've made an effort on your own, I'll be glad to help.
 
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furfool
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-15
Posts: 2665
Location: Granville

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:14 am Reply with quote Back to top

When it comes to puzzle caches I don't know what I think of them. Some of them I don't mind solving. Others, I might as well just put on the old ignore list. I think to "hate" them is a bit strong. Maybe "extreme frustration" would be a better choice of vocabulary. I don't mind doing some research to answer clues, but there are quite a few of them that may as well be written up as:
N xx yy.yyy Wyyy xx.xxx. The cache is not at the listed coordinates. Now go find it.
I know I have asked for help on puzzles before, but I really hate doing that. I feel as though I'm not putting any effort into it and it makes me look like some lazy dolt. And of course that's when the frustration sets in.

"I have come up with a few different possibilities. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction?"

Ok, I see this or that, but what in God's name am I supposed to do with this information?

"Hi, it's me again. Now what do I do? Thanks."

"One more question for you. How am I supposed to convert this into that? Thanks again."

At this time, I'm sure I'm on this person's ignor list.

BTW. If I have a puzzle on the ignor list, how can I get it back? I don't even see where it went, I just know it's there.

_________________
I\'ve only made one mistake in my life, I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. 
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marc_54140
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-28
Posts: 2631
Location: Little Chute

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

Ask all the questions you want. Or, none, if that's your cup of tea.

Puzzles are created by different individuals, from different points of views, from different ideas.

That means they can be quite hard to solve, frustrating to deal with. Unless you happen to be thinking the same way as the owner when it was created.

Because everyone approaches them differently, it means there are puzzles out there you will never figure out on your own.

Either ignore them, or ask lots of questions, or go on a 'Tour'. Take your pick. It's a free world (at least according to the great Zuma!).

BTW, there is an old saying 'The really stupid question is the one that is never asked.'
 
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marc_54140
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-01-28
Posts: 2631
Location: Little Chute

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:21 am Reply with quote Back to top

Ignore list - it's one of your bookmarks. In to it and edit.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:17 am Reply with quote Back to top

furfool wrote:
When it comes to puzzle caches I don't know what I think of them. Some of them I don't mind solving. Others, I might as well just put on the old ignore list.

BTW. If I have a puzzle on the ignor list, how can I get it back? I don't even see where it went, I just know it's there.


To get a cache out of the ignore list, just go to Premium Features>Bookmarks>Ignore List.

The ignore list will be in your bookmarks and you can add to it and edit it like any bookmark. And I agree, if you are not interested in doing a puzzle, then the ignore list is the best place for that cache, as then it wont mess up your PQs.

I currently have 274 caches in my ignore list, almost entirely puzzles. I add to it on a regular basis. It almost serves as a second bookmark for me of obtuse and time consuming puzzles, so if I ever get in the mood to solve one, all I have to do is look at my ignore list.

zuma

_________________
Keep On Cachin In The Free World.

All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:52 am Reply with quote Back to top

FYI - I answer every person who ever asks me questions about my puzzle caches. I am sure there are many who van attest to how "generous" I am with helping them solve them.

I simply don't beleive in putting out caches for the sole purpose of watching people struggle. Some may think that is the case "in the puzzle business" but not with this owner.

I actually despise cryptic puzzle cache pages with little to go on and "having to guess what the owner was thinking". (yeah I made at least few cryptic ones in the past but I give generous hints either on the page or if asked) I don't hate them and I don't formally ignore them but I rarely "go to that section of the bookstore" (following my analogy from the tour thread). In fact, I beleive Wis Kid, our reviewer who reviews most of our new puzzle caches will also condone the "guess what I am thinking" type caches, at least he has with me in the past and I know his stance on these types. He will probably still publish them but he may question the owner before doing so, which I think is a good practice to follow myself.

Personally, I would rather see all puzzles have enough hints to get you on your way. You may still struggle and be puzzled but at least your not staring at 10 rows of numbers with no hints at all.

Also, I am certainly not afraid to ask the owner or another cacher for a tip or help. Because I tend not to pay too much attention to the cryptic one's (unless they become lonely....) I rarely need much help. For instance, I've never looked at Sagasu's 5-star cryptic mess and only stared at Carol for Papr dolls for less than a minute. I look at at them to know enough to look elsewhere for my entertainment and education.

-cheeto-
 
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