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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3188
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

On my latest foray into EC development in order to gain permission I have thus far contacted or been in contact with well over a dozen folks...village, Ice Age Trail and soon to be County folks....there have easily been 25 emails passed around back and forth and there is no clear end in sight. There is still a Village board meeting to get through and even then I will not have enough permissions to get this bad boy up and running. All this before I even submit it to Geoaware for publication....and that's often a crap shoot filled with additional edits and verification requirement changes....

All this to place a virtual cache on a hiking path the public is allowed and encouraged to be on....only to have folks log a TFTC and forget the photo.

From now on I should just make puzzle caches and lie about getting permission if asked. Rolling Eyes

Aint nuttin easy bout placing these caches...
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3293

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I really don't understand the whole deal with "permissions" on EarthCaches anyway. You're not leaving anything there and on all the ones we've done, we've had to go to places that anyone in the public could simply walk up to (so it's not the issue of making new trails, safety, etc.)

Are there some EarthCaches that take you to super-secret places or something?

Why the heck do they make us get permissions to have people go somewhere, read some information, take a picture, record some observations?

Seems like a big power play to me. And trying to explain to the "authorities" that you're trying to "place" an EarthCache...which isn't really a "placement" at all...just leads to confusion.

Hence, our lack of interest in placing any additional EarthCaches beyond the ones we already have.
 
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Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-06
Posts: 2008
Location: Waukesha, WI, US

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Geoaware, along with the Geology society, just wants to make sure that EarthCaches are NOT placed in SENSITIVE areas, therefore asks for the permission to place. Sure... there are no containers, but many places don't even want any activity. This has been a gripe since the beginning. As with the WiDNR...the don't want anyone walking around in sensitive ares, YET they advertise them on the WiDRN websites. GO figure!!

LB7.. I just got a note from the gal who started up the IATCC thing. She did my Silva Prometorium...her very FIRST EC!!I can look up her ID for you...if that is of any help. Otherwise, I know AuntieNae has a lot of involvement with that also.

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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3188
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu wrote:
Geoaware, along with the Geology society, just wants to make sure that EarthCaches are NOT placed in SENSITIVE areas, therefore asks for the permission to place. Sure... there are no containers, but many places don't even want any activity. This has been a gripe since the beginning. As with the WiDNR...the don't want anyone walking around in sensitive ares, YET they advertise them on the WiDRN websites. GO figure!!

LB7.. I just got a note from the gal who started up the IATCC thing. She did my Silva Prometorium...her very FIRST EC!!I can look up her ID for you...if that is of any help. Otherwise, I know AuntieNae has a lot of involvement with that also.

She (Dolly) is already involved in my permissions process...as is nearly everyone else in the state...did I forget to ask you for permission? I'm sure it's in your email somewhere....
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5747
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I've been through this kind of thing with trying to place EarthCaches, too, maybe not quite so over the top, though.

I know it is a matter of being sure that these places are open to traffic. One that is open is Pewit's Nest, a SNA by Baraboo and an absolutely awesome place for an EC. Yet I was turned down, because they are actually considering trying to close access (which would be shame). It's a narrow slot canyon and cliff divers play there. Summer before last, one of those guys got killed in the process.

Another example would be Mt. Pisgah in the Kickapoo. Right now, the DNR has closed access, cause of erosion from the heavy rains. They want it to recover some before making it open. There are plants growing there that grow in only three other places in North America, and they want to keep it that way. I suppose that's kind of the same deal with Parfreys Glen, too.

It is frustrating, but I guess it's good we have this place to vent away! Hope you can get some resolution before too long!

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3293

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I guess the point is, if it's a place that's open to the public, why are we getting permission to "place" an invisible cache there????

Case in point...we have an EarthCache at a waterfall. There is a physical cache there also (county park). Physical cache, no permission. Our EarthCache...parks department approvals...referrals to the legal department...disclaimers on the cache page to absolve the park of responsibility Confused Confused Confused Confused

Ya, it's a moot point, so never mind.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3188
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Trekkin' and Birdin' wrote:
It is frustrating, but I guess it's good we have this place to vent away! Hope you can get some resolution before too long!

That is all I'm doing....It's just frustrating....I just keep thinking...."THERE'S NO CONTAINER!!!"

It looks at the moment like I will need Village, IAT and County permission for my latest EC. I'm still trying to determine if I really do need the County permission as I have been told...but if it turns out I need that too I'm going throw up my hands, drop the last wp and shorten the hike from 1.5 miles to .5 miles (and make the listing less special). In this case the hike was intended to showcase different types of growth in and around a small marsh...But honestly securing all the permissions for this one is quickly getting old.

Typically my permissions have been easier...lots of village board meetings, and 2-3 emails to secure a permission...not sure why this one is so bothersome....it should have been easy to get permission as it's on the Ice Age Trail...I've gotten permission more quickly and easily in Natl forests, State Parks and even in SNAs. To be fair in this process the IAT folks were the first (only at this point) to grant permission.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Lostby7 wrote:
Trekkin' and Birdin' wrote:
It is frustrating, but I guess it's good we have this place to vent away! Hope you can get some resolution before too long!

That is all I'm doing....It's just frustrating....I just keep thinking...."THERE'S NO CONTAINER!!!"

It looks at the moment like I will need Village, IAT and County permission for my latest EC. I'm still trying to determine if I really do need the County permission as I have been told...but if it turns out I need that too I'm going throw up my hands, drop the last wp and shorten the hike from 1.5 miles to .5 miles (and make the listing less special). In this case the hike was intended to showcase different types of growth in and around a small marsh...But honestly securing all the permissions for this one is quickly getting old.

Typically my permissions have been easier...lots of village board meetings, and 2-3 emails to secure a permission...not sure why this one is so bothersome....it should have been easy to get permission as it's on the Ice Age Trail...I've gotten permission more quickly and easily in Natl forests, State Parks and even in SNAs. To be fair in this process the IAT folks were the first (only at this point) to grant permission.



Well, ya have to realize that some of these beauracrats are just plain afraid to make a common sense decision. Even though they are empowered to decide, doing so means taking a risk. Many of these people on the public dole just want to stay on the public dole, and fear being reprimanded, or even fired, for making what someone else might view as a bad decision. This fear leads to paralysis in the decision making process. For them, the safest answer is to delay giving any answer until they can bump the decision to someone else. For them, giving you the round around is the safest way to keep their job.

Been there, seen that, dont like it either.

And now for something totally different, here is a little joke stolen from Garrison Keillor about beauracrats:

A beauracrat was walking out in the coutryside one day when he saw a shepherd and his flocks of sheep. He approached the shepherd and said "If I can guess how many sheep you have, will you let me have one?" The shepherd thinks this is a pretty safe bargain, so he agrees. "You have 457 sheep." the beauracrat answers confidently. Amazed, the shepherd watches as the beauracrat picks up his prize." Hey wait a minute mister. If I can guess what you do for a living, will you let me have my posession back?" The beauracrat agrees, and is shocked when the shepherd tells him that he's a beauracrat. "How'd you know?!" asked the beauracrat. "Put the sheepdog down and we'll talk about it."

zuma

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-06
Posts: 2008
Location: Waukesha, WI, US

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm to the point where I'd just like to make up a name!! Shocked

Did I just THINK that out loud???

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Asti Spumonte 
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AuntieNae
WGA Treasurer
WGA Treasurer



Joined: 2004-04-12
Posts: 3197
Location: Waukesha/ Greenfield/ Milwaukee

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

I have to say, I have been in the loop of the emails for Lostby7's EC .. and it has been crazy. The latest, yesterday afternoon, just let me going huh? So, who really owns that land anyhow! The kicker is it is on a trail they are trying to encourage folks to hike ..ANYWAY ..

yeah ..

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Finding Flow in Nature - Earthcaches Rock!Disclaimer: This post and the contents of any links or images attached is the opinion of this poster and not that of the WGA or it\'s Board of Directors. 
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furfool
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-15
Posts: 2665
Location: Granville

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have been wanting to place an earth cache myself although not on TIAT. My first query to the geosociety resulted in a good idea but not relevant to earthscience. My second query resulted in a "...would make a great earth cache." However, I also asked about the permission thing and they never answered my question. There is nobody to ask permission of. The site is completely fenced in but can be done from inside your vehicle. Now what do I do? According to the placement guidelines, I have to have permission. Any suggestions?

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I\'ve only made one mistake in my life, I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3188
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

furfool wrote:
There is nobody to ask permission of. The site is completely fenced in but can be done from inside your vehicle. Now what do I do? According to the placement guidelines, I have to have permission. Any suggestions?

Someone owns the land. As pointless as the requirement seems at times, you will need to get permission from the landowner; someone put up that fence......PM me with some details and I'll see if I can help.
 
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