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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:02 am Reply with quote Back to top

Groundspeak has archived 203 of a members EarthCaches. The member was banned and two months before his one year ban was to be lifted Groundspeak archived all his caches.

4 threads have been closed by the moderators of Groundspeak where folks were attempting to understand the archivals and even adopt those caches. Groundspeak held firm that those caches were not to be adopted...but folks could take the page text and resubmit them as their own.

Long story short, be sure to dot your I's and cross your T's when you are maintaining your ECs. Groundspeak has made it very clear that EarthCaches are not their top priority.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

More information on the banning of Cav Scout can be found here:

http://www.novago.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1821

and here:

http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4741

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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the link Zuma. That adds some more perspective to the situation. It does not however change my feelings about Groundspeak's heavy-handedness in closing the forum discussions down.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:47 am Reply with quote Back to top

Lostby7 wrote:
Thanks for the link Zuma. That adds some more perspective to the situation. It does not however change my feelings about Groundspeak's heavy-handedness in closing the forum discussions down.


There is also some gibberish on the GS forums: http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=264924&st=0

I provided links to the Maine and WV forums because Cav Scout is able to give is view of the matter there, without Groundspeak's arbitrary heavy handedness in the matter.

There are 2 sides to every story, and I dont suppose we will ever know the whole story, but the bits we can glean are interesting.

z

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TheBalks
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-01-05
Posts: 388
Location: Cashton, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

I have done some of his EC's that were in DC. Giant Head is one of them that was archived that I did.
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I got bored about halfway through the discussion but the nut of his banning seems to be around enforcing EC requirements, and/or his attitude toward that and deletions.

I will say that owning EC's was a very frustrating experience. People just don't read or don't care. I got tired of policing logging requirements, which is what I had promised to do as a prerequisite of publishing them.

Then to top it off, when I got complaints about one of my ECs in this forum, well that pretty much was the last straw. Never again!

Looks like this banned member has a similar outlook on life; namely, that there are more important things to do than to worry about electronic logs about nonexistent caches!
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have seen examples where owners were following the rules and rightfully deleted a log from a non-compliant logger only to have the log reinstated by Groundspeak when that individual complained loudly enough. The most recent of these cases was to me a black and white case; the person failed to fulfill the logging requirements and the cacheowner did the right thing by deleting the log...didn't matter. Since that day I have lost respect for groundspeak and lost interest in developing new ECs.

I had a former poster to these forums log one of my caches a few months ago...he sent incorrect answers and included no picture (which was not an ALR). He logged other nearby ECS the same way...I let it stand because I figured he'd be more trouble than I felt deleting his log would be worth.

Cav Scout stuck to his guns and got a one year ban and all his ECs archived....maybe he was out of line, who knows. What I do know is that people are not allowed to talk about it over at the Groundspeak pool.

Crying or Very sad
 
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TheBalks
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-01-05
Posts: 388
Location: Cashton, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

If your curious here is his profile, thats alot of EC's and regular caches archived. http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=9fc2492c-6589-4927-909e-ecbb3a2a3fde&wid=3c440bfd-43fc-41f4-a20e-7b5f9bf1c18a&ds=2
 
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Curly Girls
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-05-05
Posts: 497
Location: Fox Valley/Appleton area

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Wow! I thought I recognized the name. We did 3 of his caches in June of 2009 in Colorado. In fact, our 1200 milestone was at Balanced Rock - a now archived EarthCache. Too bad! Those were some fun ones we did!
 
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2CraziesMSN
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-06-14
Posts: 289
Location: Madison, Wi

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I did three of his EC and forgot to log the picture and he deleted my log, so I went and relog it and before I could upload the picture, he deleted it again. It was not that much time, like two minutes. from me submit the log and then I went to the upload picture, He had it deleted again. how i solved it, i waited a few hour and relog it and upload the picture when he was not on. i did email him and told him to give me 10 minutes to upload the picture. That was not quick for him. I never went GS for this issue. solved it myself. I loved the EC that he did and too bad they are archived
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Wow that is horrible. I can see why he ticked some folks off.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6029
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

As an EarthCache owner myself, I understand the need to make sure people actually visited your location, but sometimes there are some folks who get pretty antsy. We did a big trip out of state a couple years ago, which included a large number of EarthCaches, most of which required a photo. I emailed all my answers before logging, logged all my caches (probably over 100 for the trip), and planned to do my photo stuff and get those loaded. I usually like to work on my photos in photoshop to crop and such before loading them, which takes a little more time. I'd done a couple logs and checked email, to discover one from an EC owner who said "it's been an hour since you logged your find, yet no photo yet." I emailed him and said I'd get the photos by evening's end. I received two more emails that threatened to hit the delete.

I ignored the first, but after the next, simply invited the owner to do what he felt was necessary. I did get my photos uploaded eventually, but felt it was almost to the point of harrassment. He had it down to the number of hours and minutes (less than three since my first email response).

As I say....people are funny. Not the same CO as the one who was banned.

It is too bad so many got mass archived here. That's a lot of work. I haven't looked to see just which ones, but I know he had a ton in Kentucky and we'd hoped to make a trip down there sometime (which of course we still can, duh).

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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Goes to prove there are two sides to every story. I don't know what it takes to get "banned" and I don't intend to find out, but I've had my share of disagreements with the powers that be and have done a few log deletions in my time--only after contacting cachers and usually several days to a week's time and no response, and never if they responded and asked me to wait for whatever reason. But I've never been threatened with any banishment.

It was bad enough keeping tabs on just two ECs which was part of the reason we archived ours. I'm guessing with a few hundred ECs it is simply impossible to "calendar" each log to follow up so he came up with a practice that was technically correct but not very friendly.

My own practice in logging ECs was just to post a note with whatever details I had and then to change it when I had the rest. Never had any problems with that.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hearing first hand from folks here who have had dealings with him I have to say that he may have indeed earned a vacation... I do still take issue with the way GS waited 10 months to archive his finds and not to allow even his brother to adopt them...who has GS harmed here? EarthCachers. Allowing new ownership would have been a better solution...plus shutting down every thread meant to discuss the situation in the forums was just plain wrong.


Last edited by Lostby7 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total 
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sweetlife
WGA Board Member
WGA Board Member



Joined: 2005-01-17
Posts: 2542
Location: Mountain, WI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

First of all, CavScout is one of our good friends, and I know that he has made a few enemies at the old lillypad, Currently he has his hands full protecting our freedom over in the big sandbox of Iraq. Im sure over there time on the internet is precious, and the last thing he needs to do spend time deleting logs on his EC's. Roy has a hard as nails attitude on the logging of his caches, but with the amount of time he has put into putting all these caches out, at least the finders could put a bit of effort back into logging them. We have only done a couple of his caches, but have read many of them over in our free time. There are two sides to every story and if anyone feels that is necessary to find out Roy's side let me know and I will provide his email address and you can ask him directly what happened, bashing him here with out knowing exactly what happened is just wrong.

Barry of sweetlife

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