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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2390
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Groundspeak has just updated the guidelines for placing challenge caches. The changes to this are significant, so if you would like to place a challenge cache in the near future, you should read these to educate yourself on the changes. Here is a link

The high points of the changes are:

1. "Challenge caches based on a specific list of caches, such as caches placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published." (Point 3a We have restricted "specific lists" for a while, but until now, we only restricted "owner challenges" of a person's own caches, not someone elses.)

2. "Challenge caches cannot include restrictions based on 'date found'; caches found before the challenge cache publication date can count towards the achievement of the challenge." (Point 3B, this is completely new)

3. "One should not have to 'give up' finding other caches to achieve a challenge cache's requirements. To state that "10% of your find count needs to be Attended Logs" would require the geocacher to stop finding other types of caches and could affect their overall enjoyment of the game." (Point 6, new to the guidelines, but we have been trying to apply this for a while. This rule basically prevent publication of challenges based percentages of finds being in a particular type and challenges based on average difficulty or terrain of a person's finds. You can still do a "find 50 mystery caches in 30 days" challenge, but you can't do a 50% of your finds in the prior 30 days must be mystery caches" challenge.)

Note that the changes only apply to new challenges. Challenges published under the prior rules are grandfathered. Please take time to read this document if you have any interest in placing this type of cache.
 
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ruff54
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-09-07
Posts: 110
Location: Mukwonago, WI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

#3 makes a lot of sense. I get the other 2, but I'm indifferent about them.
 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8215
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

So it does appear to be all about the numbers.
 
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Chznschnapps
WGA Member



Joined: 2011-01-07
Posts: 51
Location: Middleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Team Deejay wrote:


1. "Challenge caches based on a specific list of caches, such as caches placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published." (Point 3a We have restricted "specific lists" for a while, but until now, we only restricted "owner challenges" of a person's own caches, not someone elses.)



So, I was thinking of placing a series of caches in which each one has a clue to the coordinates of a final cache. Do I now need to do this as an multi-cache instead of separate caches since this would be a specific list of caches placed by a specific person?

Thx,
Chz

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Northwoods Tom
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-12-03
Posts: 632
Location: Washington Island

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Team Deejay wrote:
1. "Challenge caches based on a specific list of caches, such as caches placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published."


So does this mean that a new cache similar to GC2M3MW Wisconsin Roadside Weirdness Challenge by Trekkin' and birdin' would not be acceptable? (A cache that would require you to find specific caches that have a specific feature/quality/etc. in the state).

I am in the process of creating a cache that requires you to visit specific caches and log them to complete the challenge. All of these caches are located in very specific locations. The way I read it now is this is a no go. Sad to think that it's true.

I am personally logging all these cache and had planned to include them in the challenge and now I won't be able to bring others to these spots through the challenge process.
 
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labrat_wr
WGA Vice-President
WGA Vice-President



Joined: 2007-05-19
Posts: 6050
Location: The Wildside

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Chznschnapps wrote:
Team Deejay wrote:


1. "Challenge caches based on a specific list of caches, such as caches placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published." (Point 3a We have restricted "specific lists" for a while, but until now, we only restricted "owner challenges" of a person's own caches, not someone elses.)



So, I was thinking of placing a series of caches in which each one has a clue to the coordinates of a final cache. Do I now need to do this as an multi-cache instead of separate caches since this would be a specific list of caches placed by a specific person?

Thx,
Chz


what you describe is simply the "six-pack" kind of series cache which you visit in this case six traditional caches of similar theme and gather clues or coordinates for a "final"puzzle/unknown cache. These rule changes would not affect this. The "Challenge" caches are a bit more involved, such as the DeLorme challenge, or the Wisconsin 72 County Challenge.

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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2390
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:26 am Reply with quote Back to top

Chznschnapps wrote:
Team Deejay wrote:


1. "Challenge caches based on a specific list of caches, such as caches placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published." (Point 3a We have restricted "specific lists" for a while, but until now, we only restricted "owner challenges" of a person's own caches, not someone elses.)



So, I was thinking of placing a series of caches in which each one has a clue to the coordinates of a final cache. Do I now need to do this as an multi-cache instead of separate caches since this would be a specific list of caches placed by a specific person?

Thx,
Chz


No, this only applies to challenge caches. What you are describing is a regular type of mystery cache.
 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2390
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

Northwoods Tom wrote:
Team Deejay wrote:
1. "Challenge caches based on a specific list of caches, such as caches placed by a specific person or group, will generally not be published."


So does this mean that a new cache similar to GC2M3MW Wisconsin Roadside Weirdness Challenge by Trekkin' and birdin' would not be acceptable? (A cache that would require you to find specific caches that have a specific feature/quality/etc. in the state).

I am in the process of creating a cache that requires you to visit specific caches and log them to complete the challenge. All of these caches are located in very specific locations. The way I read it now is this is a no go. Sad to think that it's true.

I am personally logging all these cache and had planned to include them in the challenge and now I won't be able to bring others to these spots through the challenge process.


What you are describing would not have been publishable before the change. The other cache only requires you to find a small subset of a list, not the entire list. I'm not certain how that particular cache would fare under the changed guidelines, so if you submitted a similar one, I would check with the home office to determine if it was publishable.
 
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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3610
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:17 am Reply with quote Back to top

Very interesting new rules. From the looks of it, my only challenge cache is safe. I think that these new rules aren't a bad thing, although I can think of several challenge caches out there that now wouldn't be published. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything about whether or not a currently existing challenge cache will need to be changed or whether it is grandfathered in.

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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19238
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

Existing challenges are grandfathered in, becca.

Also, to Northwoods Tom, T&B's challenge says: here's a list of... so many caches. You find 20 of them (your choice of which) to meet the challenge. It's not: here's 20 caches and you have to find all 20 before you meet the challenge. Same with the Rustic Roads Challenge.

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Mister Greenthumb
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-03
Posts: 2677

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

Also it should be noted so the sandlanders don't get upset about the rules is that all ice cream related challenges are still acceptable.
 
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Northwoods Tom
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-12-03
Posts: 632
Location: Washington Island

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:16 am Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for all the insight. It's nice to have a knowledgeable group to ask questions of. This makes the process of dreaming about fun and interesting cache ideas get closer to a reality.
 
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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19238
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

Mister Greenthumb wrote:
Also it should be noted so the sandlanders don't get upset about the rules is that all ice cream related challenges are still acceptable.

All ice cream caches must be placed within a two-mile radius of my home coords.
 
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labrat_wr
WGA Vice-President
WGA Vice-President



Joined: 2007-05-19
Posts: 6050
Location: The Wildside

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

FOTD Challenge

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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

As owners of the game, Groundspeak has the right, maybe even an obligation, to change the rules as they see fit to protect the interests of the game long term. So, I dont have a problem with the new rules.

What I do have an issue with is the selective application of existing rules. For example, it has been a long time since the rule was made against ALRs, yet I still run across caches that have ALRs attached. It has been over 2 years since Earthcache owners were notified of the rule change that prohibits requiring a photo at the Earthcache site, yet demands for photos at Earthcaches are still common.

I archived or modified all of my ALR caches to comply with the rules. I dont require a photo at any of my Earthcaches because I recognize the need to live by the rules. So why should I have to comply with other people's ALRs or post a photo at an Earthcache? The rules should be for every one, and I wish Groundspeak would do a better job of enforcing existing rules prior to dreaming up new ones.

zuma

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