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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3919
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm trying to set up a few EarthCaches in Glacier National Park. I've been procrastinating on this, I took all the information this summer on my visit, because dealing with the National Parks service can be time-consuming. Anyway, they responded that I could do this after I paid a $100 use fee. Mad Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could respectfully remind them that this is an area where people are going regularly already and shouldn't need to pay extra for it. I'm not sure I know how to finesse my way in there for free. When I set up my EC in Olympic NP they said there was usually a $75 fee but they didn't charge it for EarthCaches. Anyway....suggestions?
 
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huffinpuffin2
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2649
Location: Puffindoofer

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Shocking that they would charge for something that does them no hardship, and further attracts visitors. Where does Groundspeak stand on this? Seems like they should be able to use their clout, and our Premium fees, to take this off the back of the individual Earthcache CO's...........OR are they just a listing service? If this was an issue in WI, we'd expect the WGA to step in, effectively.....perhaps the WGA already has.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Post your question on the Ground Speak EarthCache forums.

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=1be24adb762b7197758cb6234d9fb0a8&showforum=67
 
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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3919
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hehehe...I just realized that one of the two that I'm working on has a small strip of land that is outside the border of the park. I think that means I get permission from the DOT and not the park service. Happy dance! I'm still thinking about the other one, that's smack dab in the middle of the park. No wonder there aren't many EC's at Glacier NP! I think the other ones are also just outside of it.

Thanks Lostby7, I should do that. I'm just a little afraid of those forums though. I've seen many discussions turn a little nasty by just a few thoughtless posters, most are nice though.

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Not all who wander are lost, some are geocaching.

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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

beccaday wrote:
Hehehe...I just realized that one of the two that I'm working on has a small strip of land that is outside the border of the park. I think that means I get permission from the DOT and not the park service. Happy dance! I'm still thinking about the other one, that's smack dab in the middle of the park. No wonder there aren't many EC's at Glacier NP! I think the other ones are also just outside of it.

Thanks Lostby7, I should do that. I'm just a little afraid of those forums though. I've seen many discussions turn a little nasty by just a few thoughtless posters, most are nice though.

That is a fairly tame subject and shouldn't raise any trolls.
 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2401
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

You should probably know (before you start posting to the national forums) that each NPS facilities can set their own rules on geocaching. If you were trying to place one in a less popular NP (say Badlands, for example), I expect that you would get a much different answer. Yellowstone, Glacier, Yosemite, Great Smoky Mountains, and a few others really don't want anymore visitors, so they can do stuff like this.

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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

$100 bucks to place an invisible container and mention it on a website that the park service doesn't own.

I am so totally in the wrong business!
 
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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3919
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I contacted them and very politely asked them if they would waive the fee as I wasn't gaining from this at all. I also made comparisons to my Olympic NP EC, which has only had 70 visitors in 1.5 years, almost all of which said that they were going to the park anyway, not for the smiley. She responded that there was no way they'd waive this fee, it was to cover their administrative costs of filing the form. So this is why there aren't any EC's actually inside the park, they're all outside of it. I'm still waiting to hear back on the one that I submitted that is just along the outside of it.

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huffinpuffin2
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2649
Location: Puffindoofer

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Are Challenges free to 'place' in a NP and list? Definitely not the same thing, or are they - in terms of impact on the Parks? Or another question: does the park really care if these 'imaginary' challenges are placed there or not, as long as no park rules are violated......just incentive for admission-paying members of the public to do a bit of research to write about.

If this is all centered around administrative fees, and if those fees are based on a Groundspeak requirement for Park Approval, it then looks like a burden imposed by Groundspeak. Groundspeak could remove the burden by finding a creative approach to validating a safe, non-intrusive and quality EC placement, without the need for a fee-imposing blessing by the NP.

Just a thought from a noob to this area. But to this noob, something doesn't smell right. Blink Unsure
 
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kc9gbo
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-06-07
Posts: 254
Location: West Salem, Wi.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

HP2, I'd believe Challenges are free to place as it doesn't require you to seek permission from the land administrator. GeoAware was on a podcast I listen to a couple weeks ago and was discussing earthcaching and it was their idea not Gc's to have every new earthcache have land owner approval to make sure earthcaches did not impact sensitive land areas.
I'm kind of on the fence with this, I can see where they would like to be aware of an earthcache that could lead to a trail across to where the location is and the learning experience, but to charge that much for "paperwork" is ridiculous also. I wonder if there is a Staff Naturalist on site that would work with you to develop the earthcache?
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 am Reply with quote Back to top

Since the topic is getting around user fees, it seems the only option for a bona fide EC is to place the coordinates outside the national park. As to where the EC itself would take you, that's another matter. How closely are ECs checked for where they take players? That is, could you have an EC start outside the park and go into the park?

If that's not possible, then it depends what your objective is for the cache itself. If you are set on having an EC then you may be stuck.

But if your intent instead is to highlight a feature of the park, or provide an educational experience, then why not go with a challenge? It could be written up the same way.

Other options are outside the scope of geocaching but are also a possibiliy if you don't care about the find count. For instance, a physical letterbox could be placed with no preapprovals or fees whatsoever. There are several in the park already.
 
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huffinpuffin2
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2649
Location: Puffindoofer

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:41 am Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks kc9gbo! We look up GeoAware, which leads to www.EarthCache.org, which clearly spells out the requirements, and leads to "Sponsors & Partners" links, which ..........Hmmmmmmm...... perhaps a line on the EC page could read something like this: "This EarthCache was made possible through a grant from Subaru of America."
 
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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3919
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

LOL! That would be pretty funny. Smile

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alexsmith




Joined: Jun 01, 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Paying for such things according to me is not right.

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