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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8206
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Just to clarify - I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or accusing anyone of anything. I'm just trying to spur some discussion around some things that might need further definition now that there are lots more people involved in the game.
 
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f1rebirds
WGA Member



Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Another opportunity for "gamemanship" would be if you found it the same day another cacher found it, but you knew they didn't play the LCG. Nobody would be any the wiser about who logged it when and there would only be 1 claim for it.


Nice one! need to add that to my play book Laughing

Quote:
Just to clarify - I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or accusing anyone of anything. I'm just trying to spur some discussion around some things that might need further definition now that there are lots more people involved in the game.


I think the rules are actually pretty well written but need to be:
1.Read
2.Followed
3.Enforced
 
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Walkingadventure
WGA President
WGA President



Joined: 2009-05-06
Posts: 2627
Location: Neenah

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think Deejay and Labrat have always ran the adminstrative side where if they were found the same day, the double points or revisits got the points. I don't see the big deal with the way points are being awarded.

I guess I don't understand how more than one person could earn a cache rescue points being given. How can more than 1 person rescue a container...but again, that is my unofficial feeling.

If it isn't being abused then let it roll. It is fun and by awarding only double points, etc to the 1st ones, there will be a new level of competition created that would threaten to take the game into a ultracompetitiv, no fun place. We are all supposed to play nice together in this game.

If there is a huge call for more competition then double or triple the number of caches in the PQ.

_________________
Signals from space make me wander in circles

The posts and opinions shared here are solely that of the individual and do not reflect the beliefs of the WGA Board of Directors.

Last edited by Walkingadventure on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total 
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Todd300




Joined: 2009-06-05
Posts: 2440
Location: Menominee, MI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Perhaps this needs to be renamed "Lonely Cache Hunt". Take the game aspect out of it.


Otherwise cachers are gonna be p**sing and moaning about this forever. There are always gonna be whiners in this "game". If it is not one thing, it will be another.
 
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huffinpuffin2
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2631
Location: Puffindoofer

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

whooops, pm
 
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Team Black-Cat
WGA Webmaster
WGA Webmaster



Joined: 2007-09-13
Posts: 6082
Location: Somewhere in Central WI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It is a game. There are points awarded. That alone will make it a competition.

The WGA Lonely Cache Game is, as far as I can determine, by far the most sucessful lonely cache "game" anywhere. Part of the reason is because it's a game, with points and winners.

The rules have worked for several years, and there were no proposed changes brought up at the LCG event. If changes need to be made to the rules or administration of the game, it will probably not happen because of vague accusations of cheating.

If clearifications to the rules on a specific issue are needed, then a PM or email to one of the administators would probably be the quickest and easiest way to get a definitive answer.

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TBC 
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labrat_wr
WGA Vice-President
WGA Vice-President



Joined: 2007-05-19
Posts: 6048
Location: The Wildside

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

This has brought out some interesting thoughts and for the most part, when point awards don't seem to hold to the rules, there may be more to it than just the submission. As it was already mentioned, the multi cache rescue points one involved one cacher recovering the container and the group finding a stray Log in a baggie that may have fallen out or was left behind when the cache was replaced. So, really this was discussed by the admins and the ruling was to award points to all involved. the rescue report submitted by one team in the group but all were present (that's what happens when friends cache together).

as admins, we have to rely on the integrity of those players submitting the reports as to what occurred.
there have been several times when reviewing the cache page, additional points were awarded as the submitter did not notice the over a year since found bonus or trackable bonus points. It would be simple to admin this game by just approving the reports as they queue up but in all fairness, I insist on calling up the cache page to verify the logs. If caching together, all present should have submitted the same points, save when a trackable is grabbed as only one person can hold the trackable.
It is difficult to determine who found what first when there are separate visits to a cache and this gets really tricky when the find is logged on different days. If Deejay approves one day and I the next, yes, there may be some points awarded that may not have been earned.

I would hope that integrity means more than a few points and in most cases I believe this is true. Mistakes happen and if there is something that really seems incorrect, please contact me or Team Deejay. We are always willing to review submissions within reason. Admin decisions are final but challenges may be made if gross errors seem to be present.

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All forum posts are the thoughts and opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts and opinions of the WGA Board of Directors 
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BigJim60
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-01-02
Posts: 7155
Location: Auburndale, WI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Walkingadventure wrote:
I think Deejay and Labrat have always ran the adminstrative side where if they were found the same day, the double points or revisits got the points.


I guess that I understand the rules as only the first to find the cache after the year gets the double points. I know that I have found caches after another cacher, but on the same day, but not claimed the double points. Even when I knew that the other cacher involved was not an LCG player.

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BigJim
There are three kinds of people in this world ... the wee, the not-so-wee, and the frickin huge. 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8206
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

As a past temporary LCG admin, it's very tough to verify all the activity. Especially with multiple people involved when they don't all log at the same time. I had numerous cases where people shorted themselves of points and we tried to correct it. I give the admins credit for actually reviewing all the submissions, because they could easily just rubber-stamp them and give everyone what they submit (good / bad).

I'm guessing that a majority of my favorite points have also been awarded to lonelies. As noted earlier by others, these are generally off the beaten path or interesting puzzles.
 
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Todd300




Joined: 2009-06-05
Posts: 2440
Location: Menominee, MI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

One issue here is not everyone logs a cache find right away. The cacher may not be able to get to a computer to log the find for one reason or another so it might take a few days for said log to show up.
 
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hack1of2
WGA Member



Joined: 2010-11-30
Posts: 1051
Location: Wauwatosa, WI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Participant ribbons for everyone! Mr. Green
 
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huffinpuffin2
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2631
Location: Puffindoofer

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:42 am Reply with quote Back to top

Not sure we've previously conducted the controversial practice we 'fessed-up to, but we've now requested our points be adjusted downward.

To us, it looks bad, brings into question our integrity, and casts a cloud of distaste over the game.

A slippery slope leads to slime, as we've seen happen elsewhere, and we regret bringing it into this rewarding and valuable Game.

Please accept our apology for this. It will not happen again.
 
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beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3590
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:56 am Reply with quote Back to top

A big thank you to all who play the game and who work to keep it going as well!

_________________
Not all who wander are lost, some are geocaching.

Disclaimer: This post and the contents of any links or images attached is the opinion of this poster and not that of the WGA or its Board of Directors. 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8206
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I must publicly apologize because a few of my comments here have raised some questions from others. Unfortunately some of the comments require insider knowledge of specific situations and without this context they could easily be misintrepreted I also didn't want to bring specifics into this forum because of the controversial nature so I was trying to stay general.

I apologize to anyone that feels I was calling them out specifically because that was certainly not the intention.
 
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WStemple
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-06-23
Posts: 508
Location: Out on the trails.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:13 pm Reply with quote Back to top

CodeJunkie wrote:
I must publicly apologize because a few of my comments here have raised some questions from others. Unfortunately some of the comments require insider knowledge of specific situations and without this context they could easily be misintrepreted I also didn't want to bring specifics into this forum because of the controversial nature so I was trying to stay general.

I apologize to anyone that feels I was calling them out specifically because that was certainly not the intention.

Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
 
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