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jthorson
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-05-01
Posts: 847
Location: Pewaukee, WI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The motive for increasing the number of caches at outings was to distribute the attendees among many more caches, reducing the number of people working on any one cache at time. The mother-ship cache also tried to solve the same problem.

But as attendance continues to grow, combined with the desire to "get 'em all", the opportunities for the gentler parts of the hobby that Ken describes get lost. I find talking about geocaching with geocachers more interesting than geocaching.

I have no solution other to let people do what they came to the hobby for. And that's different for each person.


[This message has been edited by jthorson (edited 04-07-2005).]
 
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EnergySaver
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-28
Posts: 1440
Location: Ozaukee County

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

How old are you people anyway?
You always seem to have great answers!
Must have hit that magic age of "total wisdom".

Your right, JT, that many hides has the benefit of spreading people out. The event that we've got coming up has addressed that as best as possible ... we have 40 hides, but they are divided into 3 groups ... the hope is that people can seek the group or groups that are most their style, and you can still feel that you've "completed something" just by completing one group.
 
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EnergySaver
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-28
Posts: 1440
Location: Ozaukee County

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

My last thought on this (unless I decide to have another one) (stop throwing things at the screen!) ...

#1 Can we agree that the only logical reason that Groundspeak does not have a selection choice of "found it" for event caches ANY MORE is because THEY think, event temp caches should NOT count as finds? Am I right, or is there some other reason I'm missing?

#2 If I'm right about #1 above, then anything we do to log finds for temp event caches is against what Groundspeak thinks is correct.

#3 Based on #2, we can as individuals either choose to not count temp finds, or we can choose to count them. We're never all going to agree on this, but it appears we have the ability to do what we want.

#4 So for those that want to count the temp finds, just continue to log that additional "attended" entries, they count towards your count. Why bother trying to find a special way (ie. by using another regular cache of some kind), to make it so you can pick a choice of "found it". What's the difference, either way your going against Groundspeak intention, assuming I have #1 correct.

#5 As a co-chair of an upcoming event, I think if people are going to log the temp finds for the event, the best place to keep them from showing up on regular caches, is to let them show up on my event cache page. To me that's where they belong, we're better to show you found something at an event, than on the page where the event is advertised.

... I think we (including me) are trying too hard to come up with a solution that some how makes Groundspeak's logical/reasoning go away.
 
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shrek and fiona
WGA Member



Joined: 2003-12-21
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

shreks idea was shot down real fast when he posted it make a new icon for temps
 
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CB&MB
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-02-24
Posts: 385
Location: Silver Lake, WI

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:55 am Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by EnergySaver:
My last thought on this (unless I decide to have another one) (stop throwing things at the screen!) ...

... I think we (including me) are trying too hard to come up with a solution that some how makes Groundspeak's logical/reasoning go away.


TWO WORDS: HEE! HEE!
MB
 
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kbraband
WGA Historian



Joined: 2002-02-19
Posts: 2461
Location: Mequon, WI US

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by EnergySaver:
I liked your comments, Ken!


I don't have a reply to that. I just wanted to see it posted again.
quote:

So does this mean your going to have a July 4th event again? I hope! I've got more practice now, if you want to consider placing two caches, this time. But nothing so dangerous this time!


Yup, we plan to have a 4th of July geocaching picnic/event again. Watch for the event cache page whenever it gets warm outside.
 
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Cathunter




Joined: 2003-09-10
Posts: 1263
Location: Bristol WI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

quote:
Originally posted by shrek & fiona:
shreks idea was shot down real fast when he posted it make a new icon for temps


Shreks idea is great! Unfortunatly, no one member of the WGA can make a new log type for temp caches on the geocaching.com website. All we can do it recommend it to the management of that website.

EnergySaver has also made good points.

I urge every member to think about what they would prefer to do, instead of what Groundspeak allows us to do.
Groundspeak provides us with a cache listing service. They will continue to amend their ideas and policies as long as individuals and groups like the WGA continue to provide input.

It is evident that WI is somewhat of an outcast in the area of temp event cache logging. As has been said before- SO WHAT? We do it our way.

Let's not stop looking at new ideas...There just might be a better way. It's not about Groundspeak or the WGA--- It's about Geocaching in Wisconsin.

 
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GrouseTales
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-18
Posts: 3399
Location: West Allis, Wi

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, here is the "offical" word from Groundspeak and the approvers. I asked them the reason for the change from "found it" to "attended". I asked it this was just a wording change which made more sense, or if this was to disuade people from logging temps. Here are some opinions:

  • Most of the Groundspeak approvers feel it is silly to log temp finds. They feel that the WHOLE experience, including temps, -IS- the event. If you partake in finding temp caches, you have attended the event ONCE.

  • It seems that some of the Groundspeak crew acknowledges that some temps are worthy of logging. Many feel it's a way to artificially inflate your "finds", such as caches passed around the room to log.

  • Groundspeak is neutral on the issue of logging temp caches for events. They want local communities to decide what is right for them. Groundspeak does not want to become the "log police".

  • Temporary caches placed for an event are part of the event. They should be logged on the event page. Some didn't feel it was appropriate to create a seperate page for logging "finds" vs logging "attend" on the event page.

  • The overwhelming majority of those who responded felt it was wrong to make multiple logs for temp caches at an event.

    The official word from Groundspeak:
    Quote:
    The official opinion is, we don't care. Becoming the logging police is not something we want to get into. There is such a difference in what is acceptable by one local community vs. another we have no desire to try and mainstream that. Especially because "it is not about the numbers".


    So what's the bottom line? Well, I would suggest for this campout, we do things status quo. Log the temps as "attended", if you so desire. I think we need to lean toward enjoying the event for what it is, and get away from the multiple logs. Maybe we should establish a cutoff date for doing so. Of course if would be up to each event's organizer to determine if multiple logs would be permitted or not.

    Geocaching.com isn't the logging police, and I don't think we need to be either.

    BTW, I suggested the idea for a temp cache icon/log type, which could be used to log temp caches at an event. No one would touch that topic Image


    ------------------
    "There are two kinds of hunting: ordinary hunting and grouse hunting."
    -Aldo Leopold, A sand county Almanac


    Brian
    WGA President
    Grousetales at wi-geocaching dot com
    KC9GMW

    [This message has been edited by GrouseTales (edited 04-09-2005).]
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    Cathunter




    Joined: 2003-09-10
    Posts: 1263
    Location: Bristol WI

    PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

    Thanks for following up with this Brian, it is pretty much the response we expected. Image
     
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    Miata
    WGA Member



    Joined: 2002-02-20
    Posts: 860
    Location: Neenah, WI

    PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

    Wow, do I feel like a creep for wanting to search for temp caches. Some of the best quality caching time (sorry Ken)I have spent, has been on the trail with board members and people I have met at the events including Jplus14....Indiana super cacher.

    With that being said...see you all Saturday! Image
     
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    houseofbrew
    WGA Member



    Joined: 2003-12-06
    Posts: 178
    Location: Bay View, WI

    PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:23 am Reply with quote Back to top

    Ok, so I completely missed this thread, and had started a new one. Thank you Folk Trakers for pointing this one out to me.

    I just wanted to bring one thing to light that I don't believe was covered in this topic.

    Although MOGA had it's own L.O.T.E.C. page, the entire state of Missouri has one L.O.T.E.C. page that is shared for all events that Missouri cachers go to. The page is marked as unavailble, so someone doesn't accidently try to find it when doing a pocket a query, and they update the coordinates and activate the page on the weekends of events.

    Just for reference, so you can get a good idea behind the spirit of this:
    http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=0bf448a5-72b8-4467-9751-10868cea915a

    It seemed like the idea covered in the beginning of this thread was welcomed by most of the people responding, so I wanted to comment on the fact that WI wouldn't have to go through the hassle of constantly approving caches that weren't really caches, and having all these extra cache pages, and extra work for approvers, etc. This could be a one time effort. One page that gets archived. I believe, when you host an event, you put a watch on the LOTEC cache, so you can get emails on the logs just as if people were logging your event a few hundred times.

    Thanks for the consideration of the idea.
     
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    EnergySaver
    WGA Member



    Joined: 2004-05-28
    Posts: 1440
    Location: Ozaukee County

    PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:32 am Reply with quote Back to top

    It's funny (or maybe just human nature), how people have different view points on stuff like this, yet I can't say one view point is "more right" than another.

    This past weekend while talking to various cachers ... I found that some people would rather post temp finds on a SPECIAL "regular" cache page just for the purpose, so that their "scoreboard" for EVENTS reflects how many events they went to rather than finds at events (Make Sense) ... but other people want to post temp finds on the "event" cache page, so that their "scoreboard" reflects on many Temp Finds they have in total on EVENTS and Regular Finds they have in total on TRADITIONAL, to sub-classify the "flavor" of their finds (Makes Sense Too) ... it just seems like it all depends on what you want to reflect on your "scoreboard".
     
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    Opossum
    WGA Member



    Joined: 2005-05-11
    Posts: 210
    Location: WI, USA

    PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:36 am Reply with quote Back to top

    I like the idea of having a seperate icon to log TEMP finds, and also would support them not counting towards the total finds number. In my humble opinion, the folks at GC.com have the right idea about the events being about a single event based around the sport of geocaching and the people involved, loggable once, although I'd like to see a way to track temp finds for those who are interested.
     
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