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kbraband
WGA Historian



Joined: 2002-02-19
Posts: 2461
Location: Mequon, WI US

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

WARNING: POLITICAL VIEWPOINTS HAVE BEEN POSTED IN THIS TOPIC. iF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS IN THE WGA FORUMS, DON'T READ THIS TOPIC. IF YOU DON'T MIND A LIVELY POLITICAL DISCUSSION, READ ON.


Today is the 75th anniversay of the execution of Socco and Vanzetti. See details here: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/sacvan.html
It's an interesting story to remember, especially in these times of renewed repression.

I assume they are the persons for whom geocachers Socko and Vancetti named themselves.


[This message has been edited by kbraband (edited 08-24-2002).]
 
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arffer
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-17
Posts: 1375
Location: Darien, WI US

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Very interesting article, thanks for posting it!
 
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Cheesehead Dave
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-04-06
Posts: 1031
Location: Kenosha, WI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Very interesting article. Brings back the ol' history lessons. But where was Mel in all this? Smile
 
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Yawningdog
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-21
Posts: 233
Location: Muskego,WI,USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

Times of renewed repression, indeed.
I fear that in this brave new world of ours, it would take no less than an Arabian ancestry for the same fate to befall more, otherwise innocent, individuals.
Mindless, pushbutton patriotism has always had a way of changing the rules.
I have a very close friend from Lybia who has owned and operated a successful business in Waukesha for many years and has proven to me, on many occasions, that his love and respect for our country and all that it stands for is nearer and dearer to his heart than any "native" Americans that I know. He may have to close his business soon, due to the efforts of several "God fearing, red blodded Americans" who suspect his very existance on "our" soil.
Keep waving those flags, dittoheads. The rest of us will be mourning Sacco and Vanzetti.
 
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Team Roman Geoskis
WGA Friend



Joined: 2002-02-19
Posts: 15
Location: Elkhorn, Wi

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 8:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yawningdog:
[B]Times of renewed repression,

Good point of view Sam, I just disagree that this is renewed repression. Our country has a history of repression, from the italians and poles of the 20's and 30's to the japanese americans of the 40's, the McCarthyism of the 50's, the asian americans of the 60's and 70's, the eastern europeans of the 80's and 90's and the african americans since day 1. I also have some friends that I consider better americans than myself, and I served my country for over 20 years in military service. I know a family from Poland that went "over the wall" 25 years ago and a Bosnian family that moved here 5 years ago. They love this country with a passion, gladly paying their taxes and voting as though it was a responsibility rather than a right. I have a degree in history, yet both of these families would blow me away in a debate of the constitution.

The events of 9/11 have required a change in the american way of life. I don't think this includes a government sponsored program of repression against arab americans. It sounds like your libyan friend is suffering the same indignation as my friends at the hands of an extreme minority. Sacco and Vanzetti were sacrificial lambs offered up to calm the country's fears that were fueled by the mass imigration of the time period. I pray that we don't have to have a sacrifice to calm the "real americans" fears that were fueled by the tragedy of 9/11.

Bob Marley said it best in "Get Up, Stand Up"
 
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jthorson
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-05-01
Posts: 847
Location: Pewaukee, WI, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:42 am Reply with quote Back to top

We all have strong opinions on these subjects. But there are better forums for expressing them.

As important as they are, especially on the eve of the picnic, let the dust settle a little and lets find some refuge in our common pastime.

Let us stay on topics related to geocaching.

For example any idiot knows that the best GPSr is a &(0 <etx> <end of transmission>
 
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kbraband
WGA Historian



Joined: 2002-02-19
Posts: 2461
Location: Mequon, WI US

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I created this topic with only a partial tie-in to geocaching. I have no problem at all with people expressing their political opnions here. So far the discussion has been very respectful and well-thought. Write on!
 
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Thraxman
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-23
Posts: 395
Location: Janesville, WI

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

My point of view on this is quite simple. I am not a German-American. Therefore, there are no Arab-Americans, no African-Americans, no Asian-Americans, no hyphenated-Americans. Only Americans.

Does this mean I can honestly say that I am color-blind, that I have no predjudices? No. What it means is that when I meet someone, if I sense that I may be influenced by the color of their skin or the accent of their voice, I just simply remind myself that this fellow American deserves better than to be subject to some irrational negative thought that was ingrained in me 25 years ago. And you'd be surprised how automatic that becomes. It requires no effort to simply remember that one common thread we all have. And it ticked me off during the days following Sept. 11 that many decided to boycott businesses owned by those that recently moved here. They didn't hijack those jets, just as I wasn't running concentration camps in WWII.

The sad thing is that this country has reached a point where we often can't enjoy our strongest feature. The melting pot theory is largely wrong. Our diverse cultures don't eventually blend together seamlessly to form one American Culture. Rather, the USA acts more as a salad bowl. If you toss a green-pepper into a salad, it may become smothered in dressing, and you often won't taste it by itself, it's flavor will be experienced with that of the tomato and the cucumber. But it is still what it was before it was harvested, a green-pepper. Every ingredient in the salad adds to and improves the salad, but its identity is largely unchanged. So it is in the USA. People from around the world come here. We don't blend into one race, we don't all celebrate the same holidays, we don't seamlessly flow together. But we SHOULD be enjoying our differences, not regretting them. But, for that to happen, the whole country has to be of the same attitude. That can only really start by building on that common thread: We are all Americans, here together, for no good reason other than that we happen to be here.
 
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arffer
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-17
Posts: 1375
Location: Darien, WI US

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Did you happen to notice that in these posts, just about every nationality was listed at some point? In fact, I would challenge you to come up with a single nationality that could not claim 'oppression' at some point in U.S. history.

So I ask then, who is doing the 'oppressing'? The mythical 'they'? The men in black suits? Some unifying consipiricy super agency?

No, of course not. Its the 'others'... The other 'nationalities'. For those of poor self esteem always seek someone 'different' than themselves to place one step lower on the social ladder so they can look down on them and thereby feel better about themselves.

So we can't blame the ill-defined 'American' as the oppressor. Rather we need to examine ourselves to define who we look down on, who do we 'oppress' by the mere act of considering ourselves better than them.

Bottom line, as Thraxman says, if there are no hyphenated Americans, then we are simply oppressing each other. But in reality, the majority of the population does indeed hyphenate many U.S. citizens along ethnic, race, social class, economic, dress, look... and thereby classify them as less American than they view themselves.
 
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arffer
WGA Member



Joined: 2002-02-17
Posts: 1375
Location: Darien, WI US

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 10:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Steve, with all respect, you must be skimming some thread other than this one. This thread doesn't have anything to do with political difference between geocachers.

It has everything to do with rejecting stereotypes and rejecting profiling based on race, creed, religion, color, looks, accents, nationality etc., which I certainly hope you would agree with.
 
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kbraband
WGA Historian



Joined: 2002-02-19
Posts: 2461
Location: Mequon, WI US

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 10:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Out of consideration for those who want to stay away from politics in the WGA forums, I edited my first message to post a warning at the top.
 
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