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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19230
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

This post stems from reading all of the comments in the "Stacked caches" topic and from other sources.

When do reviewers require "unsearchable locations"? We have listed our dummy coordinates as parking areas near the actual cache locations (they don't give anything away for the solves). Is this maybe in the Fox Valley and other places where there are quite a few caches? We just look at the dummy coordinates to see where the cache is in general (Appleton, Oshkosh, north, south, nearby parks, roads, etc.), not as a search area.

Since many people overlook the "The cache is not there" warnings on the cache pages, I'm afraid there are some who will overlook the fact that the dummy coordinates send the seeker into the water or the middle of the road and search there anyway!

From Geocaching.com on Hiding a Puzzle Cache:

"For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 kilometres) away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Trackables that find their way into the cache reasonably correct."


From Cheeto's sticky in this forum:

"...the reviewers will often require that the location of the dummy coordinates be "unsearchable locations". Handy unsearchable locations might include: Rivers, Lakes, Ponds, Middle of Major Highways, Middle of Garbage Dumps, Waste Treatment Plants, Quarry's, you get the idea."


So what is preferable for dummy coordinates on our next puzzle cache or two?
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have had potential puzzle caches disabled during the review process and have been asked to move the dummy coords to unsearchable locations.
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Please note: I did not say that it was an absolute requirement. I worded this one carefully in my "sticky" because I have some where the bogus coords are searchable and are "starting points" if you will. For instance, my Richmond Rockets puzzle cache has pretty legit dummy coords.

As to why we have been asked to use unsearchable locations, that would be for a reviewer to chime in on.
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It seems like you can use "searchable" coordinates if they take you to somewhere reasonable to search--like the entrance to a park. Otherwise the goal is to alert cachers who try to go to the dummy coordinates that "this can't be right."

I agree that when you put them in the middle of the interstate it could potentially cause trouble, but it's what's done. I've seen logs posted on caches where neophyte cachers have searched in vain in the middle of a parking lot, so I suppose it's possible someone could walk out to the middle of the highway.

I think the ideal way to handle this would be to set up a two-tiered system. The dummy coordinates on the cache page would be something like the north pole or the middle of the ocean somewhere. But in order for it to show up in local searches (and track trackables correctly, etc.), there would be a "actual proxmity" coordinate. But that's a whole level of complication and programming we're not likely to see.

In letterboxing, this works more cleanly because you are typically searching by city.
 
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seldom|seen
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-31
Posts: 733
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

gotta run wrote:
I've seen logs posted on caches where neophyte cachers have searched in vain in the middle of a parking lot, so I suppose it's possible someone could walk out to the middle of the highway.


Yup, that was me in the middle of Northland Ave on the overpass wondering who's brilliant idea it was to place a cache up here in the middle of this insanely busy road. That was during my second of third week of solo caching when I didn't have a clue about "?" caches and what they were.

A lot has changed since then. But, there will always be newbies looking for caches where there aren't any until they discover that dummy coordinates exist. That's why I pretty much agree with the non-searchable locations, although really, any location is "searchable".

Another reason why some initial education should be a primary goal of the WGA and this site.
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
although really, any location is "searchable".


Especially when you're hunting s|s caches...
 
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gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

-cheeto- wrote:

Especially when you're hunting s|s caches...


Oh yeah!!!!

We quickly learned not to discount locations because "it can't possibly have been hidden there!!!" Shocked

Just adds to the excitement...
 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2390
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to use your "fake" coordinates for parking or as a reference point, this is fine (although many people may not have these available after solving a desk puzzle). Otherwise, we ask you to place your fake coordinates somewhere that can't be searched, such as a body of water or a large empty lot, hoping to clue in someone who accidentally put the fake coordinates into their GPS. I'm not a fan of the "middle of the interstate" choice, but it does meet the criteria. The middle of a city street, on the other hand, does not qualify, as some people are more than a little sloppy with their coordinates on street light hides, guardrail hides, and traffic sign hides. Another available option that I don't see used too often is "inside" a large building (a submitter from Michigan did this). Also, if you manage to pick the only spot in Wisconsin with no bodies of water within 2 miles, we will relax the 2 mile guideline to allow you to place your fake coordinates in a non-searchable location just a bit farther away.

I own one puzzle cache where the fake coordinates are for parking, and once a year, someone tries to find the cache in the parking lot. I have a prewritten "Uh, buddy, you have to solve the puzzle first" note for those occasions.
 
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seldom|seen
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-31
Posts: 733
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Team Deejay wrote:
such as a body of water or a large empty lot


....these too can be places to hide a Nifty Effluent cache...
 
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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19230
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Team Deejay wrote:
Otherwise, we ask you to place your fake coordinates somewhere that can't be searched, such as a body of water or a large empty lot, hoping to clue in someone who accidentally put the fake coordinates into their GPS.

I don't see where it is up to the reviewers or the cache owners to make things easier for sloppy cachers. I have hand entered coordinates wrong into my receiver, and I have forgotten to write down the coords I got in my puzzle solves. It just makes me more careful the next time I go out.

When downloading straight from the computer, does the type of cache come up if it's a puzzle, and could people look at that and realize that maybe the coords they put in aren't the final ones? I still don't understand cachers who skip over the cache pages and just look at the coordinates to make a quick find. I do all sorts of planning and research to learn about the cache, the area where it is, maps, comments in previous logs, etc. It just enriches the caching experience for me.

Of course, you may notice that our numbers aren't that great, but we're still having fun.
 
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