The Wisconsin Geocaching Association

  Login or Register

Website Navigation

62.png Home

49.png Information Center
26.png WGA Newsletters
24.png Reviewer's Words
53.png Presentation Resources
39.png Geocaching Files
27.png Bookmarks
56.png Location Rules and Regs
49.png BOD Info Center

17.png Forums
16.png New Posts
20.png Unanswered Posts

calendar_day.png Upcoming Events
mapicon.png Map
29.png Calendar
11.png Submit Event

mapicon.png WGA State Park CachesNew content !

shield_star.png Cache of the Month
mapicon.png Past Winners Map

LonelyCache.png Lonely Cache Game
mapicon.png Current Map
26.png Scoreboard
11.png Submit Report

rescueiconsm.png Cache Rescue
11.png Submit a Mission

icon_community.gif Members
27.png Your Account
47.png Private Messages
contact_blue.png WGA Member Map
Geocaching_LIVE_poweredby_16.png GC.COM Authorization

icon_members.gif News
tree-T.gif Topics
tree-T.gif Archives
tree-L.gif Submit News

image_cultured.png Photo Gallery
tree-T.gif Updates
tree-L.gif Popular

shield.png Fun Stuff
28.png Recent Logs
TB.gif Picnic to Picnic TB Race Standings
TB.gif WGA Hauler

49.png Board of Directors
 
Contact Us

 
Facebook

Wisconsin Geocaching Association

 
Follow Us

Twitter Button

 
Subscribe to Newsletter

Subscribe to our mailing list

* indicates required
 
Geocaching.com Search
View Search Syntax
 
COTM
Winner -
August 2014 Northern Zone:
WSQ Gordon Cemetery

Winner -
August 2014 Northeast Zone:
Trout Haven

Winner -
August 2014 West Central Zone:
WISCONSIN DELORME CHALLENGE

Winner -
August 2014 South Central Zone:
Capitol Punishment

Winner -
August 2014 Southeast Zone:
Wisconsin Homestead - Emslie Farm

Winner -
August 2014 Series of the Month:
Classic Childrens Books


More Info >>>

 
 
Wisconsin Geocaching Association: Forums
 

 

View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
seldom|seen
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-31
Posts: 735
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

A number of things that have risen to the surface in the immediate aftermath of the 2009 WGA Campout have prompted me to ask for a "Best Caching Practices" Forum to discuss Geocaching ethics and best common practices. We all cache for different reasons and prepare for caching in different ways, but there are a few good standard caching procedures that all of us should practice and I think it warrants a dedicated forum for a BCP sticky and commentary/discussion.

Here are just a couple of examples from this past weekend.

1. With all of the Participants, vets and newbees alike, a whole slough of cachers visited the Perm Cache "Fish Out of Water". That cache had a wet ball of paper for a log and the container itself was missing. Yet it was more than 24 hours into the campout and dozens of visits to the cache later that a responsible cacher replaced the soaked log book and posted a Needs Maintenance for the missing container. Considering the names in the list of "Found It"s with many thousands of finds among them, I am surprised it took that long for someone to do the right thing. Even if a cache is destined for Archiving, you'd expect a cache near an event of this magnitude would at least get a little temporary help for the duration of the event.

2. Pillaged caches. Many have noted since the event the nature of the remnants in their permanent caches in the Park. Many well stocked caches for the event were simply plundered and left with a few dribbles of worthless swag. Some of this is bound to happen, particularly with new cachers who may not be familiar with TNTL protocol, but in the company of so many veteran cachers the amount of cache plundering also seems a bit out of balance.

3. Missing Night Cache. Maybe not the place to discuss it, but it is surprising that an ammo can with a considerable amount of time and expense, turned up missing when the Night Caches were being retrieved the following morning. It is certainly possible that a non-cacher happened upon it, and I hope that is the case, but I do wonder.

There are many other topics that show up in the General discussion thread that could find a home here. Equal trading, TB or GC 1 for 1 swapping, unnecessary Need Maintenance logs, proper Re-hiding of caches found "in the open", etc.

Please seriously consider adding this forum to website.
 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Team Hemisphere Dancer
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-02-22
Posts: 2049
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:49 am Reply with quote Back to top

GC18FTC

_________________
http://www.operationasisterslove.org/ 
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think the 123 current views and one reply (besides this one) to the topic signifies a lack of interest in the topic as a thread.

It's a good topic but unfortunately I don't think having a discussion of it will do any good. Basically it comes down to common sense and courtesy, so you either have it or you don't.

Probably the best thing that teaches people "best practices" is placing caches themselves. Cache owners out there can relate to the disappointment of finding a cache plundered, or finding one missing due to cacher carelessness. "Experience is the best teacher," so to speak.

As is the nature of the game, you have new people join who don't place caches right away. For that matter, you have people who find hundreds or even thousands of caches but don't place any caches except for maybe a token cache required to find a seed cache (and those are DOA now too with ALR rules). Geocaching is a game that relies on the welfare of the community to continue, but you will always have those who are content to be simply welfare recipients.

So the short version is, I don't see a need for a thread on the topic.
 
View user's profile Send private message
Sagasu
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-23
Posts: 771
Location: Menasha

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I agree. And disagree. I agree that experience as a cache owner is probably the best teacher, but then again, not everyone who finds caches places them, or hasn't yet had the opportunity to discover the joys of placing a single cache, much less maintaining a dozen, or fifty, or even a hundred. Being one of the few who took the time to place some new permanent caches out at High Cliff, and one of those who had an easy cache filled with new stuff that I bought to make the cache a nice family find completely plundered by some of the 50 who logged "Shore Is A Nice View" in five days after publishing. I know, how can one expect a cache to look as good as placed with that many visitors, these days or even in the old days when I thought most cachers were generous good-hearted people who were willing to leave a cache as well as or better than when they found it. Anyway, I drafted a diatribe to send to all the finders. It carefully pointed out that the message was just an FYI for some of the many I know or don't know who visited. I hoped to somehow reach some of the others who seemed to come to use the cache as a trash can for used and tossed off trinkets and to pick up some nice things for their kids or, worse yet, any who showed their kids how to use a cache to "trade up?" and leave some junk for those who followed. Some ethics, huh? Well, I still have the draft, and haven't either had the courage or time to send it. Not sure which. I guess I'm not surprised there have been so few replies to this thread, but it's an indication of resignation and a welcome for more and more micros. Nonetheless, I disagree with the thread being totally a waste of time. I did enjoy reading the Florida cache listing that Hemi shared, and it gave me hope that there are some others out there who have similar thoughts. I do think we need to share our experiences and frustrations with others in case they don't have any of their own to start with. For this reason I decided to finally reply to this thread, just to breathe a little life into it again, if only for a moment.

Here's my diatribe draft. What do you think, send it?:

To: Old and new friends and other finders of our new cache "High Cliff - Shore Is A Nice View" at High Cliff State Park:

Wow, fifty-plus finders in four days! That should make any cache hider happy. I was out at the park again on Monday to find a couple caches myself and was curious to see how well hidden the cache was after so many logs. The good news is that it was pretty well hidden by the latest finder. The grass around the beacon tree did show signs of all the visitors, and the lake flies and wind mentioned by many in their logs were still there.

When I looked inside the cache, however, I was a bit flabbergasted to see how quickly, even with all the visitors, a nice new cache placed just days before and packed with several dollars worth of newly purchased kid swag had been so sadly depleted and reduced to just another container of mostly crap. Our hope as local cache hiders was to be good hosts for the WGA camp-out and some of the families attending, and, along with our commitment to non-micro caches, help provide some fun new finds out or near High Cliff. This went well enough, but I'm not sure the kids or adults doing the trading fully grasp the geocaching.com guidelines for finding a cache, that do include trading fairly or even enhancing a cache. Some, of course did, as personal friends added a geocoin and a path-tag, and some finders apparently traded up, with one log mentioning the addition of a camera, and another the trade of a kaleidoscope for a new bag of marbles.

The contents of the cache were pretty sad to see after proudly leaving it for finders with all new swag for those attending the event and others to follow, A shiny matchbox car, a couple necklaces, a crystal, a pin acquired at another event, a bag of cool marbles, some bagged glass gems, and a couple other things that I can't remember, along with the geocoin, the path-tag, the camera, and even the pencil that was in the bagged log. All gone. More disappointing yet was the removal of a bag of native Wisconsin coral left and clearly addressed to another caching team as a special present for the kids in that family. Though I brought with me a couple new items to "replenish" this cache, as I am used to having to do with many of ours, I was unprepared for this challenge. Everything was gone but the log and the container. Left in the cache were a couple used toy cars, a tiny plastic chess pawn, and a couple miniature shoed feet cut or broken off a toy figurine.

I admit to being a little more swag-conscious than the average finder, and having a bias for non-micro traditional caches that give younger members of caching teams something more than a log in a micro to look forward to. We, as a caching family, also like caches in nice scenic natural settings or at an interesting or historically significant location. All of us were perplexed by how quickly this offering was diminished and felt a need to express our disappointment. The WGA (Wisconsin Geocaching Association) forums have threads about cache gripes and praise, but not everyone gets to read those thoughts about what works well and what doesn't for those of us who take the time to "give back to the geocaching community" by placing and maintaining caches.

For this reason, I decided to take the time to send this to all the finders of this new cache, knowing that it is just an FYI for most, but a "nice to know" for some. There are some practical ethics about finding a cache and how it is treated or re-hidden so those who follow might have the same kind of fun experience.

Sagasu/Dave
 
View user's profile Send private message
Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6079
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dave,

I don't think your "diatribe" is too harsh. I agree that part of the problem is the fact that the vast majority of cachers do NOT visit forums and probably don't place caches themselves. In past threads, other cache owners have stated they would rather people take the stuff for the kids and let the owner know in the log, rather than throwing a bunch of junk or even trash into it "to trade." We also try to stock any of ours with a decent choice of goodies, and like everyone else, when maintenance time comes......it's filled with people's cards, useless drink chips and rubber band bracelets.

We went out on a limb a couple years ago. Our third Coulee Birding cache was placed specifically for kids. In it were things like kids' Natl Geographic field guides, little magnifying glass things for kids to look at bugs, various nature related kids' tools, and a pair of good quality Audubon children's binoculars for the first child to help find it.

Thankfully, others did respect that and leave them for a couple of little preschool boys. Can't say as much for the rest of the goodies. Or the cache, for that matter. Hopefully the items taken have sparked in interest in the natural world for their takers, if nothing else. We had to check it many times. It was clearly labeled, "may need to wade," and placed very well above the flood lines. Time after time, it was found.....in the water. People hurried to replace it, whined about the three foot walk on a log bridge over the water to the huge tree and.....threw in crap.

We archived it last fall. It was the first time we'd ever archived a cache, but there is no reason for it to have been in the water so many times. If people respected the placement and returned it, it wasn't going anywhere. If people traded even somewhat fairly, it would have been fine. But we hated having a cache that was a money pit to keep stocked for people who either don't know how to say "no" to their kids if they don't have swag, or don't care.

I don't know what the answer is. I've helped at a couple local How-to events and stress these things, and know that everyone else in the state does so as well. There are cache notes in the caches, but no one ever reads them. We try in a respectful way to direct new folks to consider the cache owner, but then they have to take the bait and run with it, or spit it out, I guess.

Basically, I'm afraid much of what we see is a reflection of society in general, which seems to say......"Get out of my way, it's mine!"

_________________
Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
View user's profile Send private message
gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Trekkin' and Birdin' wrote:
I don't know what the answer is. ...
Basically, I'm afraid much of what we see is a reflection of society in general, which seems to say......"Get out of my way, it's mine!"


The second part of your observation is your answer. Geocaching attracts a cross section of people just like anything else does. There are givers and there are takers.

This is why I said I didn't think this topic had a lot of value. People who are on the taking end aren't likely to take a good look in the mirror and recognize themselves, let alone change their behavior.

At best, this becomes a sounding board for frustrated cache owners. Which is not in and of itself a bad thing, although I've already gotten slammed once for starting a "gripe" thread.
 
View user's profile Send private message
thepharmgirl
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-14
Posts: 275
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

I agree that this topic could easily (and unfortunately) become a gripe thread and mere preaching to the choir, but I also think it could be a very worthwhile discussion in the general forum if members were willing to offer specific actionable solutions to the issues raised rather than just complain or write lofty manifestos (No insult intended since I've occasionally felt inclined to write my own). In the words of Elvis: A little less conversation, a lot more action please!!

There was a lot of "aftermath" (as you call it) and plundering of cache swag at last year's Cache Ba$h (as well as the disappointing destruction of a flower garden), so I sympathize with your frustrations. But if I may play devil's advocate for a moment, here are a couple points to consider:

A) Large events like the WGA Campout and the Cache Ba$h draw a LOT of newer cachers. Some are aware of proper caching etiquette; some are not. And some just don't care (we can't control that). But the sheer number of people to one area in a short amount of time magnifies the problems you addressed. Not only that, but the "trade even" concept may not be as obvious or common sense as you may think, especially at at an event, because "brand new" toys in caches might be assumed to be bonus prizes for finding the cache as part of the event festivities. Some temporary WGA caches have been known to have candy to take, so why not toys? And how many kids hike with brand new toys to swap? Your faith in a fair trade was sweetly hopeful but realistically doomed. (Remember, I'm playing devil's advocate here.)

B) Regarding trackable items, new cachers may be only recently introduced to this side hobby within geocaching. They would like to start moving and tracking these items, but have nothing to start with. So perhaps they initially take a trackable without leaving one so that they have something to trade next time. I freely admit (and without shame) to have done this when I first started. You have to start with something. Once again, one single cacher wouldn't be noticed, but a large number of new cachers taking trackables without leaving any would stand out (and yes, it's frustrating for the experienced cachers).


Anyway, getting to the point...

I think we can probably agree on one simple fact which is the root of the majority of issues: new cachers need to be better educated from the start. I see this as a community outreach/education issue. Perhaps the WGA Community Education Committee (with help from the general membership) could really grip their teeth into this topic and perhaps make an impact for future events and general caching.

Here are some of my specific ideas:

1. Implement a "Big Buddy" system at events. Individual attention and communication is probably the best teacher. Cachers with less than 100 finds could be paired with willing cachers with higher numbers. Seldom|Seen wondered why veteran cachers weren't witnessing the massive pillaging? It's because most of us were caching with each other, not the newbies! I personally don't care if I don't find all 100% of the temp caches. I would be more than willing to join a group of new cachers and help them learn the ropes. In fact, that would be awesome. Wouldn't it be a great way for new cachers to have a fulfilling caching experience, plus wouldn't it be a great way for veterans to know they've passed on all their knowledge about best caching practices?! I'm sure some intelligent mind could come up with a smooth way to run this program. Perhaps on the registration page, there would be a box for "Want Big Buddy" yes/no or "Will be Big Buddy" yes/no. Or perhaps cachers could voice their willingness in a forum topic/poll. etc

2. Subtle Messages. The WGA could produce a bunch of cheap round buttons or stickers that read simply "I trade even" to give to cachers (especially kids) at registration. This subtly implies to those cachers that trading evenly is what you're supposed to do. If they ask what it means, we educate them in a few short seconds. How easy! All day long, they can wear it proudly like a badge. Or it could have a big star on it which reads "Fair trading sheriff." I bet kids would love that. Plus it gives them an active role in doing the right thing as far as swag goes.

3. Make large poster of "Best Caching Practices" that would be prominently displayed at each event (with the WGA logo, of course). For example:
BEST CACHING PRACTICES:
1) Leave no trace. Be sensitive to nature. Leave an area the same or better than you found it. CITO=Cache in, trash out!
2) Be stealthy. Rehide the cache the same or better than you found it.
3) Trade evenly. Only take an item if you can leave something of the same general value.
4) Trade safely. Do not put food or dangerous items in the cache.
5) Be proactive. Replace a full or wet log if you can, or inform the cache owner with a "needs maintenance" log.
6) There's no shame in a DNF. It's okay to not find a cache. Logging a "Did Not Find" helps the owner and other cachers know about potential problems.
etc etc etc.... (I'm sure people would have more to modify/add to this list)

4. Caching Etiquette Card for Caches. A smaller version of the Best Caching Practices could be available in a printable postcard-sized(?) square/rectangle that cache owners could attach to their regular-sized swag-filled caches to help minimize plundering and unfair trading.

5. A WGA Emergency Repair/Replacement Kit could be keep on hand specifically for various events. This Kit would be completely donated from voluntary contributions from the general WGA Membership. I'm sure there are many generous spirits who would donate a logsheet or baggies or matchstick containers or a camo-taped PB Jar or even an ammo box to this cause. Perhaps this could have been used to help the unfortunate "Fish Out of Water" disaster cache that S|S mentioned. After repairing the cache, the WGA could post a note on the cache page which would say something like, "Your cache has been repaired using donated supplies from the WGA Emergency Kit. For more information about the WGA, click here." The cache owner would be grateful and it would get a positive message out about the WGA (good publicity!).. and perhaps it would get other cachers realizing the value of helping out their fellow cachers.

Anyway... I think I've given more than two cent's worth. Thanks for listening (if you made it this far..hah).


"Instead of complaining that the rosebush is full of thorns, be happy that the thornbush has roses."
 
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6079
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

Annie, These are GREAT ideas. It's true that big events show big impact. What a rotten deal about the garden last year, though. I'm a gardener, so I'm always pretty careful in those settings. Heck, I've been known to do a little weeding while searching!

I'll make sure board people see this thread, if they haven't already. The fall event would be a great place to try some of these ideas out. Thanks for sharing your brainpower!

_________________
Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
View user's profile Send private message
JimandLinda
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-08-14
Posts: 5407
Location: Rosendale WI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

We remember that flower garden, and also that the coordinates were about 24 feet INTO the garden from where the container actually was. I remember telling my cache partner for the day, "We'll here about this one in a bad way by days end!" That's what happens when 350 cachers descend upon an area in a few hours. Wonder what will happen with 800?

Not bashing the Event. Just hope there are no caches in sensitive areas, with this many cachers around!

As far as trading even on trackables, that's easy! NO!

Most trackables have a mission. If we can help it on it's mission, we move it. If not, we discover it. The mission might be a location for a picture, or a destination. Trackables were meant to MOVE, which is entirely different than swag trading. We also tend to put trackables in caches that other cachers will enjoy, other than in a lamp skirt. However, we will NOT take ALL the trackables from an Exchange point, unless there is only one trackable, and we can help it to it's goal.

Trackables are not swag...they are trackables! Educating new cachers on the difference between the two would help.
 
View user's profile Send private message
gotta run
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-11-26
Posts: 3306

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

pharmgirl, your comments are spot on. The problem with these forums as a delivery vehicle is that new people don't know they exist. And for that matter many experienced people don't read them.

As an incubator of ideas...yes. But we need to push that information out to the public.

That is what we have our BOD for...and what events would be a great venue for, as you also mention.

T&B, I'd be curious to see what your bringing this to the board will accomplish. Several months ago, I volunteered my services on some education/outreach committee or another. It's been so long I can't remember what specifically it was, but with my background in copywriting I felt I could contribute to some extent, whether in writing or material production. Still haven't heard back.
 
View user's profile Send private message
cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

We can't even get the new logo up posted in the WIKI, not that anybody can find that either and you expect to get all that done?
I agree with the suggestions thou.
 
View user's profile Send private message
Sagasu
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-23
Posts: 771
Location: Menasha

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Great suggestions, Annie! And thanks for the comments and interest, Gwyn, and others. It looks like some new life has been breathed into this thread and some thoughtful ideas generated. I hope the WGA can help carry the message to newcomers, though not all will be reached, it can help to have a positive effect. I remain committed to having caches that finders can look forward to visiting instead of wincing. Spent some time adding brand new swag to a dozen caches owned by others today, almost every find we made. The alternative to some good regular sized traditionals is all micros with nothing in them, something I'd hate to see even if they are all great puzzles or good multis leading to a final. Great puzzles often have their own special enlightening experience, but, for me, and many others, the game centers around being out on the trail with a GPS and finding caches in interesting or scenic places. It would be nice to have the caches we find be worth opening when we get there.
 
View user's profile Send private message
seldom|seen
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-31
Posts: 735
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Took me a while to get back to this.

I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions and knew that I spoke for many cache hiders when I brought the topic up.

I am very pleased, especially, with the well-thought out suggestions by Annie which shows just how "WORTHWHILE" this thread is. If a poster to a thread can come up with that many potential viable options to better educate the newbiees, what more is there for the BOD to do, but to review and implement?

How about a series of Pathtags instead of buttons? One for each "Great Caching Ethic". Just like the caching practice tags below. We could do a small fundraiser to develop a series of 5 or 6 tags (some like the samples and some new depending on the discussion) and all branded with the WGA logo, of course. Hand those out at functions as door prizes or awards and they will leave an impact.

I do hope the BOD is not only following this thread but taking seriously the suggestions therein. The LCG has been mostly successful in its mission to better the overall quality and condition of Wisconsin Geocaches. These suggestions could have the same positive effect.

I'll be watching...

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
bartrod
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-03-12
Posts: 1092
Location: Oconto, WI-The birthplace of western civilization

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

thepharmgirl wrote:

"Instead of complaining that the rosebush is full of thorns, be happy that the thornbush has roses."


I agree with all you said, especially this...and don't forget to smell them[Very Happy]
 
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:       
Post new topic   Reply to topic

View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001-2008 phpBB Group
:: Theme & Graphics by Daz :: Ported for PHP-Nuke by nukemods.com ::
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
 
Forums ©
 
Legal Notice | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Parental Consent Form | contact | Comments ]

All content © 2013 Wisconsin Geocaching Association, except comments and forum entries which are property of their posters.

The Groundspeak Geocaching Logo is a registered trademark of Groundspeak, Inc. Used with permission.
 


Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the WGA Terms of Use


Distributed by Raven PHP Scripts
New code written and maintained by the RavenNuke™ TEAM


(Original PHP-Nuke Code Copyright © 2004 by Francisco Burzi)
Page Generation: 0.11 Seconds

:: fisubice phpbb2 style by Daz :: PHP-Nuke theme by www.nukemods.com ::
:: fisubice Theme Recoded To 100% W3C CSS & HTML 4.01 Transitional & XHTML 1.0 Transitional Compliance by RavenNuke™ TEAM ::

:: W3C CSS Compliance Validation :: W3C HTML 4.01 Transitional Compliance Validation :: W3C XHTML 1.0 Transitional Compliance Validation ::