I find that Assumptions are never productive.

For info on this group of cachers, try visiting the http://www.swissperpetual.com web site.
They also have a forum where these kinds of questions can be asked.

These are Not gc.com caches, and the hiders are Not stealing gc caches. These are seperate hides in the same park.

SwissPerpetual caches are meant to be retrieved by the cacher once found – and then re-hidden in a new location. Anyone remember Traveling caches? This is a new concept, started by a MN cacher who previuosly used GC to list his caches.

I should point out that from EasyGps, it appears the Swiss hide was close to 210 ft from the gc hide, not that close to “the point” It shouldnt have been a problem stumbling across it if you were looking for the gc cache…..

If anyone is interested in trying something different, this might it.

If you look thru the Swiss cache listings, Yes, youll find there are several hidden in ares that also have GC caches- But these are seperate, and have nothing to do with GC, or its rules. There is one on the bluff not far from a former WI cache of the month- “Nectar of the Gods” and more near Osceola, etc.

I have some concern here in that although the intentions of SwissPerpetual may be good, the activity of seeking out hidden objects with a GPSr will be mistaken for geocaching.

Where this becomes a problem is that the WGA is working hard to make sure that our activity is agreeable with the state DNR and other land managers. At a minimum, any form of GPS stash hunting in WI should coincide with the rules that the WGA and it’s members have worked out with the land managers. Any less, and we risk endangering the future of our sport.

While I applaud someone trying to go out and begin something new…quite a lot of effort was put into starting this…I do share some concerns…

I went to the site to check out this…we are always interested in trying new things…at face value it sounds interesting…

I am concerned that several of the areas that are listed as currently having a “cache” are in areas that the state as well as local areas have indicated that they don’t want caches there. regardless of weather or not they are associated with GC or not…they are hidden in areas which for one reason or another shouldn’t be there. This will make our dealings with land managers more difficult. If they find people that are out searching for things in their area that they have already said no to…any progress that we have made with local and state agencies could be for nothing! A lot of work has been put into dealing with these agencies…and quite honestly, the thought of all of our hard work being compromised is rather upsetting.

Enjoy your game…just don’t compromise mine!

Hello there!

Here is a copy of a letter sent to the Minnesota Geocaching Association Board Members. This is being sent to the Wisconsin Board as well. We are well aware that rules are in order. Plans to construct and research are well under way. We ask #1 that anyone who can help us, do so. #2, please be positive. We appreciate any tips as to poor cache placement, and are fixing any mistakes as fast as we can…

Begin Letter:

Hello, my name is Josh Campbell,

I am a flight student in college at St. Cloud State University living in Sartel. Because of my past with outdoors as a boyscout becoming an Eagle Scout, as well as with my family, I’ve created a website called Swiss Perpetual (http://www.swissperpetual.com), which I’m sure you’ve probably heard of by now. We are a very new cache tracking site begun in MN.
With our best intentions, we would like to become a regularly used cache tracking site and are eager to work out the bugs that come with developing such a concept. I am a very determined individual, who will find some way some how to make my vision a reality. At this point, I am realizing the complexity of my decisions, and trying hard to play my cards right the first time. Although my site is primative at this point, I have a web designer currently working on updating the site to include a database, and other modern technology the site will require. My current issue (and the reason I’ve come to you for help), is that I need to construct a rulebook based on land useage laws and regulations pertaining to cache placement in MN (and eventually other states). I am interested in obtaining any information you have. We are very eager to get up and running, and we desperately need rules before caches are placed in wrong areas.

Regardless of who or how they were collected, if they are laws, they should be available for all to both view and use. I want to do the right thing here and follow the rules so that my members don’t give a bad name to geocaching for all. It is very important that I find the help I need. If you are willing to help me, please return this email and I will check it as soon as possible.

Remember ~ we may use GC.com, we may use Swiss, or any other website, but we are all “Geocachers” one in the same! (concept taken from newly published Geocaching Handbook)

Thank you for your time in reading this,

Josh Campbell

:End Letter

We’re all on the same side here…

[This message has been edited by The Swiss Tracker (edited 09-16-2004).]

Originally posted by Trudy & the beast:. . . . Cathunter has raised some very genuine concern’s.It is a critical to stay within the guidelines of groundspeak, The DNR, Dane County, the WGA, etc.

I agree all concerns raised here are genuine, and legitimate. I agree that following all State, DNR, County, city or other rules is very important.
However, I also agree that groundspeak does Not own the game we are particiapting in. They are a listing service, not the sole authority for the game as a whole.

Now we are playing shoulder to shoulder with another activity that superficially looks like ours. We might easily find ourselves sharing the burden of guilt for indiscretions of gamers from another camp; gamers that are not bound by the rules we adhere to.

I am curious if you feel the same towards Navicache users caching in WI? Don’t they bring the same worries? If not, why?

*If They are following Navicaches’ cache hiding FAQ page, shouldnt that create the same worries? (That FAQ is a far cry from Gc’s guidelines, right)

(I realize in this case they are cross listed thru gc.com, so recv’d “approval” -so they must be OK-but I ask this in a general sense)

We have been involved in this sport for many months now, and feel gc.com has been doing an admirable job of tying this all together. There are some things we might want to see changed, but for the most part they have provided all that we need to enjoy the outdoors, the camaraderie, the game.

Now SwissPerpetual comes along and wants to introduce a new game. Please tell me why I should have any interest in adding to the offerings of groundspeak. If there was a need, I might understand an alternative. Please tell me what SwissPerpetual has to offer.

If SwissPerpetual is only looking to play their game on our turf, I see nothing wrong with that. Nothing, as long as it doesn’t deminish our ability to play our game. If it’s going to look like our activities, then SwissPerpetual needs to enter our arena equiped with the same rules we have.

It is admirable that Team Swiss has approached the issue at the BOD level, but we are still unsure of your credentials. Are you geocachers? What is your expreience? What is it that you are offering? and what are you asking of us? So far your only request has been for information regarding the rules and boundaries we face. These have been published for all who have an interest.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy & the beast:
We have been involved in this sport for many months now. . . . .

Now SwissPerpetual comes along and wants to introduce a new game. Please tell me why I should have any interest in adding to the offerings of groundspeak. If there was a need, I might understand an alternative. Please tell me what SwissPerpetual has to offer.

---

I guess if you read the intro page at swissperpetual.com, and don’t understand the concept-then it obviously isn’t for you.
Its the other cachers who are looking for a bit more of a challenge, or are tired of being regulated into parking lot micros by guidelines.(just an example!)

It won’t help to explain it any further, since you seem to be quite happy with what you have, and thats quite alright. We however have grown tired of many aspects of gc.

IMO, their “Do it our way or go somewhere else” attidtude has grown old.

If SwissPerpetual is only looking to play their game on our turf, I see nothing wrong with that. Nothing, as long as it doesn’t deminish our ability to play our game. If it’s going to look like our activities, then SwissPerpetual needs to enter our arena equiped with the same rules we have.

As I stated- Following any and ALL Federal, State, DNR, local or any other acknowledged authorities land use rules, etc is our #1 concern. Obviously, not trespassing on private property, staying off RR tracks, etc- are all going to be followed. But JOD wont play much of a part in Swiss.

It is admirable that Team Swiss has approached the issue at the BOD level, but we are still unsure of your credentials. Are you geocachers? What is your expreience?

BOD? I musta missed that acronym. I am listed on gc.com under this same username. http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=67617398-ef10-443c-be68-b3ade5be326d

I was involved with caching well before registering at gc tho, while being shown the ropes by a MN cacher back to 8/2002. I didnt have access, so he got my waypoints, etc- I never logged any of that, since I didnt have access. We also did local, freind only caches to keep ourselves entertained. Have owned a GPS for 5+ yrs, and so on.

I wont speak for Swiss Tracker, other than to say he IS a geocacher, and has been for some time.

What is it that you are offering? and what are you asking of us? So far your only request has been for information regarding the rules and boundaries we face. These have been published for all who have an interest.

Again, if the Swiss main page isn’t clear, than this probably isn’t for you. We are asking nothing of you, other than if you are interested- give it a look – and be open minded and respectful.

AS for the request for info-that has come about as a result of folks asking that we learn these things. If they have been published, than a nice little link to them would be much more useful than this.(see above)

Please, If you can provide a link, or source?

Otherwise, we will just continue to search it out, and build our info DB, and remove any bad placements.
This is evolving day by day, so nothing is set in stone. . . .

[This message has been edited by Pto (edited 09-16-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Pto (edited 09-16-2004).]