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I guess im just calling this a very big fustration and I feel the need to vent. So here it goes!
I thought it would be great to start a TB Motel cache in our area, since there isn’t one for miles and this cache spot would be a great spot since its the last area on I-90 before getting to the Minnesota line. and has a excellent wooded trail area on site. So I did alot of research and emailing. Took 2 weeks and 3 different emails later from the WISDOT to get a answer. So here is the crappy gram I got. I am just wundering if the DNR is the only state agency that knows about geocaching. I think we need to further inform other agencies like the DOT since waysides, and rest areas are prime cache spots. Theres alot here in Wisconsin. I mean, why not the rest areas. It is public grounds isnt it?? It just doesnt make sense.The following is the email that I sent for the request and the reply back email.
Original Message
From: Spoerl, Robert
To: ‘Todd Bloomingdale’
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: Rest Area info. I-90 Sparta-Bangor WI.Mr. Bloomingdale:
Thank you for your inquiry regarding Geocaching. Unfortunately, this is something that we cannot allow at our rest areas or at our waysides for reasons of liability/safety, and to not open the door to other such activities. We have no problem with the “Geocaching” activity in and of itself – it just doesn’t belong in our rest areas.It is also of concern that Geocaching is already going on at other rest areas apparently without WisDOT permission. From what I have determined neither the site managers, RFW nor WisDOT have granted permission for this. This goes against the geocaching rules that I read posted on the website.
Bob Spoerl,
Roadside Facilities Engineer
WisDOT – DTID – Bureau of Highway Operations
Madison, WI — 608.266.8665
Original Message
From: Todd Bloomingdale [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Rest Area info. I-90 Sparta-Bangor WI.Im looking to get this to the personnel/manager in charge of rest areas on Interstate 90 in Bangor and Sparta WI.
Hello.
My name is Todd Bloomingdale from Sparta and I am in search of a property manager at the Rest areas on I-90 at Sparta # 16 and Bangor # 15.
I am looking for permission to place a container for a very popular sport called Geocaching. (http://www.geocaching.com) This outdoor sport is where a container is hidden on the property and GPS coordinates are taken of the location. This is then listed on the geocaching website, and the finder gets these coordinates and then uses his GPS to find the container. This container would not be burried or anything in that matter. It would be hidden in natural hiding spot on the property like in a downed log in the wooded area.
This sport is very popular and would be a great opportunity for travelers that geocache to stop at the rest area for a break and get info, and also a chance for a cleaner property as most all geocachers that stop pick up trash while there so an “Win WIN” for both the geocachers and the property. Currently there is a few geocaches at rest areas at Black River Falls on I-94 and in the Wisconsin Dells area on I-94.Here is another link to a short online web based presentation for your viewing that was made from the Texas Geogaching Association.( http://www.texasgeocaching.com/docs/geointro.swf) and the Wisconsin Geocaching Association powerpoint presentation at http://www.wi-geocaching.com/info/WPRAGeocaching.ppt (longer load time with Dial-Up or slower connection).
I hope the property manager would grant me this permission.
Sincerely,Todd Bloomingdale
“Be safe and Keep on Searchin”Well, that sucks. I was just planing for our next trip to Iowa (whenever that will be), and I had only planned on rest stop caches. I don’t want to stray too far off the interstates with 3 small boys with me
I hope the existing ones are allowed to stay.
It’s too bad that this person has taken this position, effectivly preventing geocaching in state rest areas. Hearing a “no” from any land manager is pretty tough to take without some hard feelings. Thus is the life of a sales person.
In so many cases, just to determine who has authority over a piece of land is a great challenge in itself. I would suspect that instead of an e-mail, a personal visit may have increased the odds a bit. I would tend to believe that it’s harder to say “no” to someone’s face and very easy to say no to an email. In this case, I can also understand where the DOT does not wish for an interstate wayside to become a “recreation area”.
It is unfortunate, but luckly there are many places and people who will continue to embrace the idea of people doing something strictly for pleasure.
Thanks for sharing this; it’s important for all of us as geocachers to know who our friends are.
quote:
Originally posted by cacherchick:
I hope the existing ones are allowed to stay.I hope he doesn’t mind me mentioning this here, but wzbt03 just archived his 6 wayside / rest area caches. Ouch.
Team LightningBugs
* * * * * * * * * *Sometimes its best to fly under the radar.
(I suspect not a popular idea around here)
Before everyone gets too excited and archives half the Wisconsin Wayside caches; please take a breath!
The WI DOT does not have a policy on geocaching in their waysides. If they wish to do so, the board will be more than willing to work with them on your behalf. This one email does not speak for the entire State Department of Transportation.
While I personally agree that flying under the radar has its advantages; geocaching is emerging as a legitimate activity throughout the world and will need to be addressed by public agencies eventually. Seeking permission is not a bad thing.Be assured that the Board’s ears have been “perked up” to this and we will keep this on our radar screen!
Team GeoPink
– Jeff
Co-conspirator to make the world a better place…Maybee someone who is close to Madison can go talk to someone at the DOT offices. I cant drive all the way from Sparta to there for just a visit that would just get another no.
And also the running under radar thing. If I knew I was going to get a negative email from the DOT I would have just “Under radared” it and just been done for all of us to enjoy. But on the other hand, I feel that the property manager needs to know whats there just in case there is a situation. I dont want to get arrested for putting a container there now!
The fustration keeps on!
smokey
“Be safe and Keep on Searchin”and I hope that wzbt03 didnt archive his caches because of me. I was just beeing the responsible cache placer and ask.
I read all his archived caches and the archived log ends with
“Sometimes people ask too many questions.”
“Be safe and Keep on Searchin”It seems that when some government officials as asked to do something different, they automatically say “no”. Because they can’t back up their reply with reason, they quote liability concerns. You never see them explaining their perceived issues regarding liability. It’s just liability concerns.
It reminds me of that TV commercial for Capitol One with David Spade. He only knows how to tell people “NO”
It is great dissapointment to hear of this. bnb pointed out one of the best rest stop caches in Officer’s Scenic Cache. Her point is right on. They want people to experience that site. The other one is a virtual based on an area that people want to go. Having done a few of these rest stop caches, many of them are based on getting information off those signs that I would guess they want people to read since they put them there with historical information on the local area. I am glad that I was able to complete some of these and I hope that with some similar work as the dnr, we will someday see these again.
-Kevin
Also, some rest areas are just funded by DOT. There are many that are maintained by other agencies (oftentimes workshops or organizations that work with disabled folks.) It would be easier to talk to these people and get their approval — and they would probably enjoy watching people in their searches. I know for a fact that rest areas 13 & 14 are maintained by Opportunities, Inc. out of Fort Atkinson (that’s where I work and I even spent some time at those rest areas as a supervisor.) There is a cache at the westbound rest area, and I’m sure there is no problem with that cache.
Bec
quote:
Originally posted by greyhounder:
Also, some rest areas are just funded by DOT. There are many that are maintained by other agencies (oftentimes workshops or organizations that work with disabled folks.) It would be easier to talk to these people and get their approval — and they would probably enjoy watching people in their searches. I know for a fact that rest areas 13 & 14 are maintained by Opportunities, Inc. out of Fort Atkinson (that’s where I work and I even spent some time at those rest areas as a supervisor.) There is a cache at the westbound rest area, and I’m sure there is no problem with that cache.Bec
That is very enlightening. It would be nice to know who is really maintaining each rest stop where a cache has been placed.
Team LightningBugs
* * * * * * * * * *quote:
Originally posted by greyhounder:
I’m sure there is no problem with that cache.Bec
Actually, I know some people have had a problem with that one – that second waypoint is rather challenging!
Team LightningBugs
* * * * * * * * * *I tend to side with the “under the radar” approach. Without a clear understanding of what geocaching is about, anyone asked for permission would be nuts to give approval. The liability reason is very valid. Anywhere not paved or in a picnic area, in other words “off trail” one risks injury from holes, roots and debris. Lawsuit time. What with this precedent set for waysides, I’d go under the radar but with this twist. Make them member only. This way there is a better arguement that participants know and understand geocaching guidelines. Further, minimize the cacher’s exposure time to muggles by providing a good clue where the cache is. And finally, put on the cache page that if a state vehicle or car with state plates is in parked there, pass it up. Better to keep the profile low. However, given the precedent, virtual’s should be easily approved now. Then again, can any type of cache be approved in a wayside now? Nuts!
Steve Bukosky
Waukesha
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