Re: Use of real Perms….I would use temps. I think if the park is interested in setting up a class of sorts it would also be OK with the set up of a few temps which would be allowed to stay in place. Granted then these hides would not be listed on GC to use for demonstration purposes, but you could always make a mock up (on paper) of a real GC page with the temp information substituted for the location of an actual geocache. I’d hate to see your Perms go AWOL.

Honestly, I think it’s making a mountain out of a molehill. If the ranger is asking you to provide the classes, you will have the opportunity to explain the permanent and renewable nature of geocaching and stress that caches need to be returned for everyone to enjoy. While we all see the results of muggled caches, I have to believe that, in most cases, it’s ignorance rather than willfull thievery that causes this to happen.

Almost every cache I’ve ever seen has some sort of “official Geocache” label in or on it somewhere with a link to gc.com. If it were willful, I think you’d see a lot more situations where one cache gets muggled, closely followed by 3/4 of the caches in the vicinity. I just don’t see that happen very often.

If anything, I’d get everyone set up quickly on gc.com at the start of the class/walk, then lead them on the walk. Have them find the caches, then go back to the start and let them log those caches on the spot. It should only add a small amount of time and will let everyone get their e-peen rewards from finding the caches on the walk.

I think by doing perm caches and taking everyone through the entire experience from registering to logging will help ensure their respect for the hobby.

I was busy working in the yard thinking about this one. I was going to write exactly what Lostby7 said. Some Boyscouts in Hartland recently had an event in Hartland just for the Scouts. They were going to use permanent caches in the area, two of which were mine. I was a bit worried as they would later be telling their friends about the caches and who knows what would happen next. Luckily they went with temps for the day. The only thing that I don’t like about your idea is now there may not be another event by you at HB and we were looking forward to it. If any veteran geocachers are hesitant to attend basics class events go to Energysavres. We attended and despite a day of caching in the rain this rates as one of the better events that we have attended. We had 11 finds, hot dogs and brownies. The only thing missing was sun.

I like the idea of temps to display unique situations, but I’m still not sold on the idea of boycotting real caches for the muggle factor. I do know that if I were attending something of this nature, I’d get the impression that the presenter was being somewhat elitist by not letting us search for the real thing.

@Mister Greenthumb wrote:

@Ry and Ny wrote:

I like the idea of temps to display unique situations, but I’m still not sold on the idea of boycotting real caches for the muggle factor. I do know that if I were attending something of this nature, I’d get the impression that the presenter was being somewhat elitist by not letting us search for the real thing.

If you would attend a basics class you would see how clueless some of the attendees are. Also everyone who attends does not become addicted. Those of us who own hides ( I have over 50) value them and we have all had some muggled. Without the geocachers who put caches out there there would be none to look for. A minority of the WGA members own the majority of the caches hidden and pride ourselves in providing quality well maintained caches. The responsibility of owning a cache is non ending and sometimes I’ll spend half a day just visiting my own hides to check on them. Once you have hidden a cache this is much easier to understand.

Please don’t assume I don’t understand just because I haven’t hidden a cache or had a cache muggled. I have experienced similar losses in other hobbies, some that involved far more investment of time and resources than all but the most advanced cache. I’m talking a few hundred dollars investment and months of 2 to 4 hour days as an investment only to have it come to naught by the carelessness of another. As with many endeavors, one does not have to have participated in the exact situation to understand the gravity of it or even empathize with the consequences of the careless or malicious actions of others.

I would certainly expect that many would not become addicted. I would also expect some people to be clueless walking in. Heck, I was clueless walking into this and I’m not sure if I’m addicted or not. I’m having fun, but am not going through tremors if I don’t get to go seeking on a weekend. However, even if I had only gone and found one, I think it’s still human nature for the vast majority of people to respect others’ property, especially in the event that an explanation just as you gave is given to those who are participating in a class. For those to whom it is not their nature, the battle has been lost as soon as the words “geocaching.com” leave your lips or appear on a class syllabus.

After all, in the end, almost by definition, if you’re giving a demonstration you’re handing the potential new geocachers AND the potential muggles all of the tools they need to either be productive geocachers or to wreak havoc on all caches both in the park and in their own neighborhoods, whether you use existing real caches or just temp caches. Let’s face it, the actual work spent in going to gc.com to download the coordinates for the closest 500 caches to your zip code is less taxing than the effort it takes to go and and walk to one cache, whether you’ve already been there or not.