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BigJim 6 years, 4 months ago.
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So, while discussing how the LCG lists are created, I stumbled onto an issue that that may or may not be something that can get resolved through a bit if GSAK tweaking. Lots of the same caches appear list to list simply because no one has looked for them. Sometimes it’s a matter of not enough cachers in an area to get to all the lonely ones. On the other hand, I can think of three caches nearby me that aren’t even accessible right now unless you’re the Winnebago Dive Rescue Team. I know these caches haven’t even been searched for in the warmer months due to a lack of certified divers in the WGA. I don’t see a lot of people looking for them. If there was a way to write the search macro to compare to prior search lists and only leave the ones that have been on the list for 6 months or less, you would end up with some rotation and more new lonely caches each cycle.
I haven’t done a lot of looking at the current list, my phone does not like the map for some reason, but I am also questioning whether caches that have been DNF by the lonely hunters still make the list if they haven’t been maintenanced or disabled. If they do make the list, it is a little counterproductive to the game. Cachers who have already hunted them aren’t going back for a second time at failure.
This is just a thought. I really enjoy the LCG, and would like to see it bring in more people to play. It is a fun way to keep caches in Wisconsin happy and we’ll maintained. If this is a possible tweak, that’s great. If not, the game is still great the way it is.
My posts should in no way be considered as the views or opinions of the WGA or its Board of Directors. All posts made under my name are my personal opinions only.
WisKid stills puts out the LCG List, as he always has. When he was local, he would also send naughty logs to the COs of the lonelies with issues. If there was no response from the CO, it would be Archived and the cache would move to the Cache Rescue List. That is no longer being done by our local reviewers or WisKid. It is done on occasion by other cachers, but not often enough. I’m not faulting the Reviewers, as they are volunteers, but it did help keep the list “fresh” when dead caches were removed.
I see Naughty notes going to by WisKid occasionally but for Maint. issues or multiple DNFs. The current reviewers may do some disabling but WisKid is the Reaper with his duties solely that of clearing the dead wood.
If a cache hasn’t been found why should it not appear on the list? Points top out at 2 years (double)+ the extra stuff to add to points.
The focus being to keep our caches in good shape and not about scoring which is just a by product of the searching. How many years did that cache on the river ( GC920B Île du Diable -was on the Cache Rescue forever, possibly since 2006 when Buy_The_Tie added it until scott543 verified it gone in 2014).
I’ve widened my Archived notifications out to 60 miles to help lick up those caches Archived but possibly not picked up. I do have a nice letter from WisKid on how he would determine how to add these when he was doing Reaping when he lived here. I’ve added a couple and even contacted the COs of the archived caches to make sure they were picked up (curlygirls).
p.s. I know there are plans for a Cache Rescue/LCG points for one one of the Dive Team caches you mentioned. If it was removed because no one went out to look for it this month but next month it was removed from the LCG and I head out to find it, seems like that would be ‘not fair’.
Over the years we have discussed adding caches to the list, doing quadrants (headache for the admins) and a few others ideas but we keep falling back to the tried and true. I’ll have to dig again on why we can’t do more caches as I don’t remember right now but if we were wanting to add another 250 caches to the list and it was for possible additional scoring points then that seems funny.
What is cool about the LCG is when you play, it makes it difficult to repeat your success the next year since you can only revisit caches for a fraction of the points of finding it. Multi year success comes from traveling a lot ( huffinpuffin2 ) or leaving where no one else does (Team Northwoods) or being King of Cache Rescues (JimandLinda).
We should look at the number of players and see how that is doing. Do we have more/less players than previously? After hosting the LCG in Appleton last year, I have seen more Fox Valley cachers on the list than previously. Wonder what spark we will ignite this year with the event being half way between MKE and the Fox Valley.
Super great things Brian and Jim. I have a lot of passion about the LCG- it is very unique and special. I am trying ti figure out a way to add to the Rescues though…
Following the signals from space.
One thing “Up North” in finding those lonely caches, is Winter weather when many of the Chequamegon-Nicolet forest roads are not plowed. Then we have spring “break-up” when the roadways turn to mush when the frost comes out of the ground. Then of course we have a lot of spring wood ticks and deer ticks, not to mention the mosquitoes and black flies. So many times this prevents year-round Lonely Cache Hunting.
I have my eye on a few Up North Lonelies and have found 2 in January, but then I’m not so sure about the roadways for the others in my areas. So I’ll have to strap on my snowshoes or skis?
Another thought I have to increase participation is to dangle a carrot! In thinking over the awards, the 2017 BOD could develop the Awards NOW and post them as incentives to encourage LCGamers. We could try this or other award incentives to encourage more participation. It may help to clean-up those lonelies and have greater turn over.
For Example: 1st Place $30 Premium Membership Gift Card, $20 Gas card, WGA Geocoin 2nd Place $30 Premium Membership Gift Card, WGA Geocoin, 3rd Place $30 Premium Membership Gift Card, WGA T-Shirt, 4th-10th WGA Swag
OR we could have uniquely made gifts which would feature Lonely Cache Game Awards – such as Specially designed Laser Cut Plaques for 1st-3rd. I also have a contact for ceramic plates. Unique Coffee mugs in ceramic could also be made. I have sources for this too.
Just potential ideas.
I’d Rather Be Lost Geocaching, Than Found At Home!
When this first started we did Monthly Awards and labrat tried to resurrect this using his own $$$ and donations from others as monthly prizes.
He worked hard to keep jump start this but it just couldn’t go. Like most thing, the programs needs a Champion to have a vision to make the LCG Great Again!!!
Doesn’t have to be a BOD but having one in your corner to fight for something they believe in sure helps or at least a member that feels strongly enough in a plan to keep after it.
Sounds like a Day 2 BOD meeting will be in order for y’all.
Following the signals from space.
I have to agree that the same old ammo can full of swag doesn’t attract a lot of people as a prize, and seeing your name on a plaque makes people feel like they’ve accomplished something. Who knows if different prizes would attract more and different cachers? Trial and error would be the only way to tell.
To my original point, I don’t think it’s about more caches on the list, but that after 6 months of being unfound on the LCG that it gets a break for 2 months. If we could set up the model I envision, a cache wouldn’t make the list if had been on for three consecutive. After a two month absence, it would be back on the list. This would kind of create a rotation of sorts for the ones that aren’t readily sought out.
My posts should in no way be considered as the views or opinions of the WGA or its Board of Directors. All posts made under my name are my personal opinions only.
As lcg admin, I do have a bit of a struggle when the reports come in and mention probably missing or confirmed missing on revisits. I can only approve the reports and not much more. I have posted some NA notes on some missing ones but never sure if Wiskid disables them or not. I guess I could message him on these to get the archive ball rolling sooner. I can also see if he would send me a list of those he thinks are worth a cache rescue mission.
Not sure how long Dave is going to continue reaping Wisconsin caches.
Disclaimer : Always answering to a higher power.
Hmmm…ammo can with :”dash plaques” with previous winner on it. Ammo can painted to look like the frowny can…
Following the signals from space.
We’ve been doing the LCG for the last year and didn’t really know too much about it until we went to an event and I researched it a little bit more. Turns out the lonelies are the cache types we like. I bet we are not the only ones. And I am thinking that the ones who are not participating are the ones who don’t take the time to peruse the WGA website to learn about the game. So, I think this needs to be promoted more through all of our media resources rather than just on the website due to the ongoing trend of “on demand information from your personal device” no matter who is driving the bus (a WGA BOD or passionate WGA Member). Yes, this will make its way onto the BOD Agenda for 2017.
I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
-Henry David Thoreau
I feel like both the LCG and COTM need some sprucing up. Whether it’s more promotion by the board (or members) or an overhaul of the system, I don’t know. I think that the more people are Facebook, the more things have changed for our website and activities. There may be a need for an adaptation.
Not all who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien
Some trends I see with the game:
Number of participants on decline- nearly 3 times the participants in 2009 compared to 2017 (90-31)
Scores decreasing- one participant in 2010 had nearly as many points as the entire list for 2017
Latest “found” on list is getting further out- LCG from 01/2018-02/2018, most recent “found” was June 13, 2015 compared with LCG list 03/2018-04/2018, most recent “found” is July 5, 2015
To me, this means there needs to be some sort of update/s made to the game. My proposal would be to open the game up to more lonely caches statewide. The current number of 500 on the list only allows a jump of 3 weeks to caches on the list, when the time period for game play is represented by two months. This makes the LCG list more difficult to play for an ever aging group of players (not a good combination).
So, what should happen? Instead of a fixed number of 500 caches in each 2 month period, it should be decided what “Lonely” actually means. Is it a cache that hasn’t been found for 6 months or a year? If so, it should be on the list and playable for game points. The data I see, goes back to 2008. I cannot imagine that the 70-90 participants in the game in the early years were all searching for lonely caches that dated back at least 2.5 years.
The way the current list is there really is no need for bonus points. All of the caches have not been found for over 2.5 years and if the trend continues that number will grow to over 3 years.
Yes, I enjoy the difficulty the game can provide either in the find location or the puzzle solve, but why not open the game up for the enjoyment of those that cannot hike a mile through rough terrain? Or do not wish to spend hours in front of the computer trying to solve a difficult puzzle in order to get to a location for a cache that could very well have gone missing over a 3 year period? If we can get more member involvement in the LCG, maybe we can get more involvement organization wide.
There’s some great info here. I think you’re right on a lot of this, too. There are a lot of Lonely’s around the Fox Cities, but most are tough puzzles. I think there’s a reason those don’t get found, because they’re hard puzzles. Maybe we increase the number of caches per segment to incorporate more. Or maybe we switch them up some how, where a cache can’t be on the list more than x times in a row. Just some suggestions. Again thanks for the ideas, Awhip80.
The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.
When I started playing the LCG years ago, the cut-off for lonelies was usually about 8 months. I haven’t played much the last two years because there just aren’t a lot of lonelies in my part of the state, and the ones that there are I either have already found, or they are mine. I think that there are a number of factors that have impacted the LCG. One is that there are simply more caches than there were 10 years ago. More caches = more lonelies. I don’t know if expanding the size of the list would help or not. I see that a lot of the lonely caches are puzzles. Maybe the answer is to take puzzles off the list. That wouldn’t bother me, since I am not good at solving puzzles. Maybe we need to look at the bonus points. Maybe we should raise the cut-off for double points to 3 years and 4 years for triple points. Or maybe we give double points to the oldest 25% and triple points to the oldest 10%. I don’t know what the answer is, but I am glad that we are discussing it.
All opinions, comments, and useless drivel I post are mine alone and do not reflect the opinions of the WGA BOD.
When I started playing the LCG years ago, the cut-off for lonelies was usually about 8 months. I haven’t played much the last two years because there just aren’t a lot of lonelies in my part of the state, and the ones that there are I either have already found, or they are mine. I think that there are a number of factors that have impacted the LCG. One is that there are simply more caches than there were 10 years ago. More caches = more lonelies. I don’t know if expanding the size of the list would help or not. I see that a lot of the lonely caches are puzzles. Maybe the answer is to take puzzles off the list. That wouldn’t bother me, since I am not good at solving puzzles. Maybe we need to look at the bonus points. Maybe we should raise the cut-off for double points to 3 years and 4 years for triple points. Or maybe we give double points to the oldest 25% and triple points to the oldest 10%. I don’t know what the answer is, but I am glad that we are discussing it.
There are certainly more factors than the couple I had mentioned. Like you stated, many veteran cachers have found most of the caches that go lonely and do not revisit. But with that said, there may also be some easier to get to caches that go lonely in say 6 months, that those that now have mobility issues would enjoy getting some points for. I think my main point was; “lonely cache” needs a definition and if a cache is lonely by definition it should be included in the game for points. You stated that when you originally started the magic number was closer to 8 months not found. I think this is a way better number to define a lonely cache and it might open the door to more people playing the game. AND more COs maintaining their caches 😉
Just like in the NFL, adjustments to the competition are necessary, while keeping the main focus of the game intact. “Keeping quality caches in Wisconsin” is the primary goal. Unfortunately, the word “quality” has lost it’s meaning over the last 5-8 years, with more and more power trails adding to the hide count.
Be sure to ask WisKid for some ideas on tweaks to the list. He posts it for us on a volunteer basis for the WGA.
Possibly limiting the list to 150 in each of the 4 quadrants. It would increase the number, as well as keeping the quality up in the higher population areas of the state. The points would not need to be adjusted with that option. Local players will have Lonelies near them, but could travel farther for double or triple points.
Excellent discussion!
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