CITOs and the souvenir phenomenon

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  hack1of2 6 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #2060997

    Trekkin and Birdin
    Participant


    Just throwing this one out there…..with the introduction of the CITO souvenirs, does anyone feel that it’s actually devalued the idea of a CITO?  I attended one recently outside the window of the souvenir and it was well attended, but there were other enticements bringing most attendees to town.

    It just seems to me like piles of CITOs during those two weeks, then nothing any other time, is kind of not in line really with some of the stated goals of the WGA mission, and geocaching more generally.  There are plenty of places that could use some help, whether it’s clearing trash, helping with invasives or probably other creative ideas for helping the environment we all enjoy exploring.

    #2060998

    HamFam
    Participant


    The souvenirs come from HQ, and not from the WGA.  I think more CITOs are a great idea, as long as there is a need for it.  I remember attending a CITO but the locations we went to really weren’t that bad.  I could see some people feeling that that may have been a waste of time.

    The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.

    #2060999

    amita17
    Participant


    Can anyone ask HQ to offer a souvenir?  For example, if I plan a CITO and I want attendees to get a souvenir, can I submit a request for them to provide people with one?  Or is it only for the general membership?  Someone would need to design it, write the program to have it appear, and so on… above my pay grade.  I am guessing it can’t be allowed.  I think those who would attend a CITO for its intended purpose don’t really care if they get a souvenir or not.

    #2061003

    Trekkin and Birdin
    Participant


    Oh, I completely understand that the souvenirs are not governed by the WGA.  This was more an observation I’ve made and wondered if anyone else had noticed this as well.  I know the highway clean-up that was sponsored by the WGA was eventually dropped due to minimal participation.  We had the same issue with our local Audubon highway section.  I think the idea of gathering along a highway isn’t real appealing to most folks.

    As far as getting a souvenir Debby…that’s all up to groundspeak.  I did read an interesting thread on their forums about the current souvenir promotion.  People were complaining that they’re “too easy” and stuff like that.  One of the Lackeys came on and commented that while most who post in those forums are already fairly engaged, the average premium member finds about 90 caches a year.  So their agenda with these kind of promotions is to get more engagement.  Cheapskate that I am, I was simply surprised that people will shell out thirty bucks a year to find less than 100 caches.  😉

     

    #2061004

    Trekkin and Birdin
    Participant


      I remember attending a CITO but the locations we went to really weren’t that bad.  I could see some people feeling that that may have been a waste of time.

    I hear you on this one, though any chance to help improve an area while visiting with friends along the way isn’t a waste in my mind.  One of the most satisfying CITOs we attended was in Iowa, where we gathered to clean out a state hunting area filled with dumped trash.  An orange refrigerator, an oven, several TVs, lots of tires.  The organizers had made arrangements with the county to waive the collection fees and there were enough people with trucks and trailers to haul the stuff out.  That does take a significant amount of planning.  I know seldom|seen has done similar clean ups at High Cliff.

    We’ve also done CITOs where the “trash” removed were invasive buckthorn and scrub oak and it made a big difference.  I have tried a few times to arrange something with a local landowner of public land but they haven’t been real great at follow-up so it can actually happen.

    I could even see a CITO where people go through an area with a lot of “dead” caches and removed the geotrash.  I agree with Debby that those of us who enjoy such events don’t worry about getting a souvenir.  I think these events have fallen off the rest of the year because of the awarding of souvenirs during those couple weeks each year.

    #2061014

    Bennycams
    Participant


    My $0.02, as a “toddler” cacher –

    I recently attended my first CITO event, and yes, it was during a souvenir weekend. And I love my souvenirs. However, I would have gone regardless, as it was a geocaching experience I had yet to have, and in a location where there were caches I had yet to find.

    CITO events, in my extremely limited experience, appear to take more thought & planning than many other events where it is not expected to have new caches hidden (though, the COs for my first CITO hid two, and I know the Hacks & the Wisjanines do something special for their joint CITO). For the attendee, it’s also understood that there’s more of a time commitment than just showing up at some point during the time frame of the event, signing the log, chatting with a few cachers, and then leaving. Having the two souvenir weekends (and having them be pretty stable in what weekends they are) gives COs & attendees alike a time frame with which to do a CITO. So, I understand why there aren’t many non-souvenir weekend CITOs.

    But for us baby cachers, souvenir weekends are a good way to make us aware of the types of caches we’ve yet to become used to. This upcoming Earthcache weekend is another example of that. Sure, we know that Earthcaches exist, but if we still have so many physical caches to find, we may need a souvenir to get us to spend the little extra time to appreciate what an Earthcache experience is. This month’s “Caching Connoisseur” is also good one for us, as it brings focus to the quality caches that you senior cachers are always griping there aren’t more new ones of being placed, since favorite points play a factor in points for the souvenir. Though I have to say, if I weren’t trying to focus on non-traditionals as much as I could for these last ones to 1000, I would have purposely gone after P&Gs for the souvenir, just to be a punk about the way they worded it, favorite points be darned.

    Oh, and Trekkin? If you’ve ever used the official app without having a Premium membership, you’d understand why people will shell out $30 a year & find less than 100 caches in that time.

     

    #2061024

    Trekkin and Birdin
    Participant


    Bennycams, thanks for your thoughtful explanation from the point of view of  “newer” cacher.  And also thanks for clearing things up with the idea of premium memberships with hardly any finds.  We only recently got a smartphone and that app, and being premium members already, aren’t saddled with the restrictions it can have otherwise. For the record….we still prefer our good old handhelds for seeking and placing.  Dinosaurs, we are!

     

    #2061028

    Bennycams
    Participant


    The official app, for non-PMs, is designed to get them to become PMs. Non-PMO caches above a 2.0 D or T rating don’t show up at all, and non-traditionals that are open to everyone do show up on the map, but when tapping on it, a box comes up encouraging the user to upgrade to Premium to learn more about them. They had to unlock the Earthcaches for this weekend because of the souvenir. With $30 a year being relatively cheap compared to other things – that’s only a little over 2 months of Netflix or Hulu – I’m sure a lot of the Premium memberships over the last few years were just to have decent access to the app.

    We are very much an app-driven society. MLB is making a hard push for fans to have their app. As a season seat holder for the Brewers, I now have to pay extra if I want paper tickets, when I haven’t for the 10 previous years, by not using the Ballpark app. Dominos keeps trying to encourage me to download their app when I order a pizza online. Where I’m going with this is, even though all non-PMO caches are available for viewing & logging on the website, I would not be surprised at all if a large percentage of the geocaching accounts created in the last few years never went to the website, only experienced it through the app. Especially those who decided to try it out after learning about it because of Pokemon Go.

    In essence, I think baby cachers like me are the exception, rather than the norm. Most either get so frustrated with the app & refuse to pay before they know if they like geocaching, or pay & give up anyway because it doesn’t magically improve upon the previous experience. Unless,of course, they’re lucky enough to find an awesome cache shortly after parting with their $30, or have a PM friend who helps them see how fun geocaching is.

    #2061033

    Trekkin and Birdin
    Participant


    There sure is that assumption that “everyone” has this technology now.  The phone isn’t mine, but Trekkin’s, and he doesn’t want all kinds of apps on the thing.  Yet everywhere we go, they try to get him to sign up for them.  Subway? Really?  We can’t just walk in, tell them what we want and pay at the other end?

    I now understand my dad, the engineer, being resistant to that snazzy electronic calculator I got when I was in college.  He was just fine and dandy with his slide rule, which was in his pocket protectors almost until he moved on to better places this past spring.  Progress stops for no person, LOL

    #2061042

    hack1of2
    Participant


    I guess I never thought about CITO souvenirs potentially devaluing the idea of CITOs.  It’s an interesting point to ponder.  They are one of our favorite things about geocaching, and we’ve participated in quite a few of them, with or without a souvenir as incentive.

    I’m sure I’m preaching to the choir here, but the concept of picking up trash while hiking or geocaching seems to be far from most geocacher’s minds.  I see CITOs as opportunities to motivate people to clean up our parks and natural areas, to help curtail invasive plant species, to rebuild and repair trails and outdoor areas – and hopefully that one day at a CITO event will spill over to many similar days without any reward other than knowing they left the place better than they found it.   Perhaps for some it takes a souvenir to spark their initial interest before they “get” it and become more environmentally responsible.

    As for us, we typically host or co-host one or two CITO events each year.  For the last five years we’ve followed a nifty format.

    1. We select a LARGE park that has great need.  2. Because it’s a LARGE park it’s likely that many people would clump together and certain portions of the park would not have that need addressed, so we mark coordinates where the accumulation of trash or issues are most pressing.  3. We place temporary caches at each of those locations where the trash or issue is great (20 to 40 spots).  People have the option of an assignment (with a temp cache) or no assignment/just cleanup wherever.  The temporary caches at the respective assignments are theirs to keep and deploy elsewhere, and are easy finds (don’t want people to waste time looking for them when they should be CITOing), with a D/T rating and hint, fully stocked with swag and a log book, with an explanation card of what geocaching is, and clearly labeled as a geocache on the outside.  4. By having these optional assignments (which pretty much everyone wants), we ensure that the park is fully covered instead of parts of it being neglected due to the sheer size of the area.  5. Sometimes a few new “real” caches are placed within a mile or so, sometimes not at all, since the emphasis is not on caches to find but on trash cleanup or some other task.

    But why give out the temporary caches?  Wouldn’t that also potentially devalue CITOs?  Wouldn’t the assignments alone, sans temps, be good enough?  Probably.  But there is an additional reason for us doing it this way.  In the Milwaukee/Waukesha area, there are SO many caches that are placed without proper labels on the outside, even though it’s required in many areas (they don’t want them to be mistaken for bombs).  SO many caches in the area have plain sheets of paper for logsheets not stating that they are geocaches.  If people receive a ready-to-go cache with a proper label and log book, maybe that too will carry over to their placement habits in the future.  We actually have seen this happening.  Incidentally, the temp caches are almost all double-walled plastic or stainless steel food thermoses from Goodwill and are fully waterproof.  One final reason for the temporary caches – it’s fun!

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