A Bridge Over Troubled Waters Cache

[AuntieNae]

Nicely said T&B,

My whole topic started when I noticed a cache in my area in bad need of maintenance.

[GeoPink]

As long as a cache owner can and will maintain his or her caches, there is no need whatsoever to mandate a sunset period. I am finding out personally how much maintainance is involved with placing caches as I’ve got quite a few hides in relation to my finds. I do however enjoy the hides almost as much as, and sometimes more than, the finds. Any requirement for me to stop doing the part of this activity that I enjoy (owning/ hiding/ maintaining caches) would be completely out of line. The other side of the coin would be to limit the number of finds you can make in a given time period so that the caches that are there, don’t get too overworked. (equally out of line)

Each of us gets a different aspect of enjoyment from this activity and there should be as few rules and regulations involved as possible so that everyone can enjoy geocaching in thier own little way.
I realize that this topic was brought to the front as a result of the lack of maintenance and inactivity of a cacher. I am all in favor of one cacher being able to adopt caches that may need adoption. This process seemed to carry out well in a different thread which brought the owner out of the woodwork and back into the forefront of thier responsiblilities as cache owner. The way this is being handled now makes plenty of sense. There are no rules, guidlines, suggestions, or zero-tolerance policies that will fit every situation. Let’s not even try.
Instead, lets keep on doing what has been working:
1) Exhaust all efforts at contacting the owner of distressed cache.
2) Contact the appropriate approver with your concerns or wishes to adopt.
3) Proceeed on a case by case basis.
This does put a little bit more of a burden on the time of our volutneer approvers, so their involvement should be limited, if possible.
This process would also seem to ensure that we are not littering the landscape with tupperware and ammo cans.

My only other thoughts are these. I was disappointed that T&tB had archived a bunch of caches just to my south. I hadn’t had a chance to find them yet. This is their perogative thought as cache owners. Hopefully someone will step up and place some where they left off. I believe that was thier intent. In this case though, there are not that many cachers in the area, and I would have loved to have been able to have the chance to adopt them myself, if only to archive them and hide another there a short time later. Maybe we need a place where we can go ahead and put our caches “up for adoption” if we so choose. This would give others the chance to find them prior to archiving, knowing that time is limited.

my two copper coins

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later,
Team GeoPink
Co-conspirators to make the world a better place…

[Green Bay Paddlers]

Sounds like a variety of opinions out there. That’s good – as a teacher I always encourage healthy debate in my classroom.

I’ve been known to be a bit of an alarmist. I guess only time will tell. Hindsight will eventually tell us if increased regulation at this stage of the game would have made sense.

Let’s hope that the self-policing continues to suffice.

[Ray]

The discussion on abandoned caches lead me to wonder how big the problem is. I don’t have any way of tracking caches with filled cameras or wet logbooks. Nor can I identify all the missing or abandoned caches.

BUT, I do know that we have about 60 caches out there that have been temporarily inactivated. About half of these have been in this status for 60 days or more and 7 of these have not been found in over a year. 3 of them were placed over a year ago and have never been found. Some of the cache owners enjoy a certain level of respect from our community for their contributions to the sport. This troubles me. I think that cache ownership involves a certain amount of responsibility. I have no intention of pointing my finger at anyone or of claiming any high ground here. I have inactivated a cache for more than 60 days myself.

If the readers of this thread have caches aging in this status, I encourage them to repair or archive the cache.

BTW we have a lot fewer caches in this status than our neighboring states. So, I believe we are doing well in our housekeeping. I just think we could do better.

tb

[The Lil Otter]

(smiles).. I can archive every one of my caches that is in need or in troubles.. but rest assured that anytime I see a cache in trouble.. I try my best to improve that situation .. just as when I hope that we aren’t just after the hunt but will help each other out.. I remember how I spent a ton of time picking up a few caches that bears got into.. knowing that the owners were not able to DASH right up there.. but with my helps at that moment kept those caches ‘alive’.. but after my log of bear chews (grins) most if not all of them haven’t had many visitors since (chuckles).. but the point is.. I tried my best to improve that situation.. or like at the Rib Mountain multi cache.. prior logs stated that the 3rd hike waypoint container had to be moved by another geocacher.. and they stated it was to help it out because of a new ski run.. when I arrived at the 3rd waypoint.. I actually spent hours finding that safer spot.. got the new lon/lat and then hiked back up and then hiked back over to the second waypoint to actually update the coords there at that logbook to assist those in finding out where the 3rd was relocated.. I didn’t have to spend the extra hours or the INTENSE hikes up and down those steep hills.. but I did it because it HELPED out that cache that was in troubles.. I call it my ‘thank you’ back to the geo-community..

No one is asking.. you or anyone else to carry extra logbooks.. baggies .. spare containers.. pens etc.. to assist in the repair of caches in troubles.. but I know I’ve helped out hundreds of caches in my journies.. I don’t publically shout about the glories I have done.. but privately email the cache owner stating the repairs I did.. (in some cases even replacing a missing container)..

For my defense.. I have been held up in my home trying to get it finished.. I have spent most if not all of my ‘spare’ monies upon this project.. it’ll soon be over where I won’t have others in constant need of entry into my home at a moment’s notice.. I’ve only SNUCK out of the home once this year to actually geocache as I had normally done.. left for a geo-trip down south..

So if the fact that some of my geocaches are in need of helps.. COULD someone that is about to hunt them.. please lend me a hand and do your best to keep it going so that others can enjoy the area?? Or if that isn’t enough to keep those caches alive.. please look over my geocaches and adopt any or all that you wish.. it was always about sharing my experiences.. and I wish not to have anyone think I’ve lost the interest in geocaching.. I’ve just not had a moment of time to call my own to actually travel around the state yet..

My van is yet stocked with all my repair materials.. and I have plans to check on each geocache that I own in the state.. each of my archived caches has been or will be picked up.. and I’d suggest that those that are worried that there is ‘geotrash’ (abandoned/archived) caches yet left out there perhaps there is a way that our local approvers can list or access the list of those and publish them for us all.. so that if/when in the area.. and those caches have no “I picked up the container” type logs.. we could all make a point of just checking the location to make sure the container is not yet there after archived…

And I hope that when you ‘save’ your first geocache that is in troubles.. you feel the same way that I always do.. that you become part of what it was always about.. sharing..

When I only had less than 40 caches in the state to find.. I actually included in my list those caches that were ‘temp’ disabled and hunted those.. it added another thrill to the hunt to find a ‘missing’ container.. I found 3 that way in one trip (grins).. and had a blast chatting with those owners that thought their cache was actually missing to only find out that either an animal or human just moved it outside of the normal 30-40feet of ground zero.

Just my two cents..

~The Lil Otter

[Miata]

I have seen ‘Lil Otters van and she does have a wide selection of replacement cache containers!

I am not as well prepared but have left a new baggie or pencil from time to time. I’m glad that we have people that care enough to take the time to make the sport better for the rest!

I was amazed when going out to replace the log book in a cache of mine that had close to 100 visits, that other than the ammo can being a bit rusty. The area around the cache looked much like the day I placed it! I have since put a date on it to be archived after reading this thread.

‘nuf said from me….now go out and find a cache instead of sitting in front of the computer.

[The Lil Otter]

quote:

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Originally posted by Miata:
I have seen ‘Lil Otters van and she does have a wide selection of replacement cache containers!
The area around the cache looked much like the day I placed it! I have since put a date on it to be archived after reading this thread.

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God.. I’m so embarrassed about my van.. I have not unpacked my van since my return from FL way back in April.. then I tossed stuff in there to head to our WGA campout the weekend afterwards.. then I’ve used my van as a “truck” to haul building matterials (giggles).. then think of cleaning it out but WHERE do I put all this stuff? Can’t bring it into the house because of the CLOUD of drywall dust and all vacant spaces filled with displaced furnature (giggles).. Can’t unpack my van into the garage because it stores even more of my crap.. and is command central for every building supply known to mankind (giggles).. so I keep telling myself that no one will notice the van MESS (grins).. but one of these days.. life will be back to normal and each thing I’ve gathered in my life will have it’s special spot.. til then.. life’s a BIG adventure to not trip over things in the dark.. and it’s fun to try to explain to a police officer that I’m not some homeless creature living out of my van (giggles)…

Miata.. if your cache placement was chosen with respect for its surroundings and all the ‘geo-guests’ visiting haven’t created a mess.. PLEASE don’t feel that you have to archive your cache because of this forum.. I have so enjoyed your caches that you’ve already taken me on.. if concerned just move your cache to a new location within that same area and just update the lon/lat so that many more can enjoy seeing geocaching through your eyes..

~The Lil Otter

[Ray]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Lil Otter:
and I’d suggest that those that are worried that there is ‘geotrash’ (abandoned/archived) caches yet left out there perhaps there is a way that our local approvers can list or access the list of those and publish them for us all..

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Rather than publish a list of all caches that may appear to be forgotten, I have taken on the responsibility of posting a note on the cache page. A gentle reminder that the cache is aging without evidence of repair. The note on the cache page isn’t quite as public as these forums but it can be read by any with a concern for the cache. As of now, I have only posted notes at caches that have gone over a year without a find.
~tb

[The Lil Otter]

quote:

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Originally posted by Trudy & the beast:

The note on the cache page isn’t quite as public as these forums but it can be read by any with a concern for the cache. As of now, I have only posted notes at caches that have gone over a year without a find.
~tb

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REPEAT from my above post JUST yesterday..
So if the fact that some of my geocaches are in need of helps.. COULD someone that is about to hunt them.. please lend me a hand and do your best to keep it going so that others can enjoy the area??

THANKS for the HELP .. Beast.. if this is the HELP area and if all you’ve done is decide to take the matter into your own hands to publically embarrass me in NOTES you’ve deemed necessary to POST .. I can’t WAIT to see what other tactics you are going to do with your “As of now” threat… soon you’ll suck the fun out of geocaching with your policing methods..

On a side note..
I wish to thank those that have HELPED me during this time that I have been STUCK at my home with this home improvement that is tying me to one area..

~The Lil Otter

[Ray]

One might gain some insight from this:

Cache Maintenance

….As the cache owner, you are also responsible for checking on your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive or transfer the listing.
[http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

[This message has been edited by Trudy & the beast (edited 06-28-2004).]

[The Lil Otter]

Thank you AGAIN for the help.. I don’t NEED mentoring from you.. I asked others here for helps.. could you PLEASE either head on back to those caches you’ve posted on and CHANGE them to an ARCHIVE request because I am breaking the guidelines.. this then might give you something else to do in your ATTACKS upon me this evening..

I don’t understand those that wish to RULE over others online.. it just seems like some wish to ruin the fun for others.. my caches have been disabled.. no one is wasting their time hunting these couple of caches.. yet you deem necessary to wish to prove your knowledge about the written rules of caching.. yet if this is all you can offer me in the way of helps.. could you please direct your ATTACKS towards others.. I’m very tired of you attacking me.

~The Lil Otter

[AuntieNae]

My apologies .. I only started this thread in hopes of contacting the owners of a missing cache .. sorry on the track it has taken everyone.

[GrouseTales]

A few closing notes before I lock this topic.

As an approver, I’ve learned a lot by some mistakes I’ve made. I’m not sure how long a cache should be allowed to be disabled before it is fixed or archived. I think leaving it disabled for a few months is acceptable.

I also feel that a cache owner should respond to emails within one or two weeks. I’ve made the mistake of assuming a cache was abandoned because the owner didnt reply to my emails. Two weeks later the owner got back from vacation and was mad that I archived the cache. Caches can always be unarchived, so archiving them is by no means a permanant status.

I agree that it would be nice if everyone carried some basic items, such as a logbook, to fix damaged caches.

I’ve received lots of email from people that feel caches should meet a certain quality, or pass certain tests to get approved. Along with those who feel caches need to be more regulated, there are those who feel we already have too much regulation. Across the nation cachers are complaining about too many guidelines.

I think that a certain amount regulation is needed to protect our sport and protect geocachers. Beyond that, I think that a minimum of rules appeals to the majority of cachers.

I’ve seen the DNR’s Geocaching policy in the works. It will require that all caches on State owned Park land be limited to a 1 year at a given location. During that year, the cache will need to be moved at least one time, to help prevent trails from forming. This will be the DNR’s rule that we will need to obey on State Park land.

If volunteer trails are forming, it is wise to move the cache to a new location. I’ve moved some of mine when I’ve seen trails forming. Other caches had existing critter trails which I followed when first hiding the cache. The cache owner should have an idea of the pre-cache conditions, and move it if a problem occurs. If there isn’t a problem trail forming, I don’t see the need to mandate a move or archive period.

The DNR has decided to mandate cache movements and removal, but Geocaching.com has not. If you feel we need more regulations on Geocaching, send your suggestions to Geocaching.com. They are the ones creating the guidelines, not the volunteer approvers. While our association can help police caches, I don’t think we should or can force regulations that don’t exist.

I barely have enough times to review caches, let alone read cache logs. Once they are approved, I don’t look back unless one is brought to my attention. I’m not about to start a review to locate disabled caches that need repair. Subsequently I won’t be publishing a list of them.

If there is a “problem cache” that has been disabled for too long, I can try to contact the cache owner. If they don’t reply to my emails within 2 weeks, I can temporarily archive the cache until I hear back from them. The cache can always be un-archived. I personally feel a cache should be allowed to be disabled for several months if needed. But that’s just my opinion.

This topic has seemed to stray far from the original issue, and has become more of an arguement then a constructive conversation. As the moderator, I’m locking it.

[Author]

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