Brown County Shoots Self In Geocaching Foot

[zuma]

I spoke with Doug Hartmann, Directory of the Brown County Parks Department today to see if we could help them not shoot themselves in the geocaching foot by charging fees. Sadly, Brown County will be starting to charge a $5 per cache per year fee for the placement of new caches in Brown County park lands.

Interestingly, he was not aware of the DNR free notification system. He was aware of the Dane County fees. He was aware of park association people calling for notification systems, in some places.

Also of interest, his department is funded 1/3 by fees and 2/3 by tax dollars. They charge for nearly every other use of the parks in Brown County, and see the fee structure as a way to “capture and control” (his words) the benefits of geocaches in Brown County. He is not opposed to geocaching per se and sees it as it an appropriate activity in the park.

He was not aware of the tourist take on geocaching, or the Northwoods Treasure Hunt, or the Chippewa Valley Geocaching Event, where the opposite position is taken by the parks, that is, promoting geocaching to promote tourism.

I am wondering what folks think we can and should do at this point, related to the development of fee requirements in Dane and Brown Counties, and who knows where else.

zuma

[Lostby7]

For a start I won’t be visiting Brown county parks….until they repeal the fee. I still think the Business chambers in the county need to be contacted (perhaps with a form letter sent to each chamber) and informed of how some communities actually encourage and greatly benefit from the money geocachers bring in.

Perhaps we could voice our opinions Here: http://www.co.brown.wi.us/
I’d like to think that 40 or fifty emails from geocachers may sway their opinion or at least give them more to think about.

[zuma]

@Lostby7 wrote:

For a start I won’t be visiting Brown county parks….until they repeal the fee. I still think the Business chambers in the county need to be contacted (perhaps with a form letter sent to each chamber) and informed of how some communities actually encourage and greatly benefit from the money geocachers bring in.
Perhaps we could voice our opinions [/url]http://www.co.brown.wi.us/url]HERE[/url]

Sounds like interesting ideas. I do wonder if an organized boycott of Dane County and Brown County would have enough of an economic impact to raise the awareness of tourism officials and the hotel/restaurant businesses that cater to geo-tourists.

zuma

[LightningBugs Mum]

How many caches are currently in Brown County parks and how many visits have they had? Maybe those numbers would be significant.

I would be interested in comparing caching activity in say Chippewa Cty versus Dane Cty parks. Can we show some differences there?

[PCFrog]

@zuma wrote:

@Lostby7 wrote:

For a start I won’t be visiting Brown county parks….until they repeal the fee. I still think the Business chambers in the county need to be contacted (perhaps with a form letter sent to each chamber) and informed of how some communities actually encourage and greatly benefit from the money geocachers bring in.
Perhaps we could voice our opinions [/url]http://www.co.brown.wi.us/url]HERE[/url]

Sounds like interesting ideas. I do wonder if an organized boycott of Dane County and Brown County would have enough of an economic impact to raise the awareness of tourism officials and the hotel/restaurant businesses that cater to geo-tourists.

zuma

In comparison…

I do not attend any gun shows, boat shows, fairs, and the like activities that charge people to have access to the grounds. I find it unbelievable that these places want to charge me about $5 a person to enter their show to buy things. Would you pay $5 to your grocery store to enter and buy their food? (footnote 1) Now I have personally boycotted anyplace like this for I’m not going to pay them for the privilege of being able to shop there and I’m sure not the only one. The problem with this is the economic impact is negligible and who cares what few others or I think.

Now I agree that NO cache should be placed in these areas and while our lack of visits will never be noticed directly by money, it was not there to start so you can’t say it is a loss. However, we can make sure that places that support geocaching get our full attention and make these places aware what they have basically banned.

The Geocaching community needs to as a whole take a stance not to place or hunt caches at the locations that charge fees. Yes, it’s a boycott in basic form but boycott has harsh tone to it. A more subtle reminder of what their area is not possibly receiving though tourism is more important than just telling them that geocachers will boycott them. You kind of done this already but these areas need to see more often what other areas are doing and the good press behind it.

Footnote 1 – I know there are a few stores that charge a membership fee for the great savings you get in buying bulk. Most of the time people don’t buy enough or the right items to actually recoup the cost of such membership fee. You also restricted to what they have in stock at the time. If you go to another store, you’re wasting your membership.

[Lostby7]

@LightningBugs Mum wrote:

How many caches are currently in Brown County parks

Not sure how many of these fall into the county parks but they have a great number of caches in the county.

[lagrac]

You’ve gotta be kidding me. This is the Green Bay area that we are talking about right? I was over that way during Christmas to clear the Door County Delorme Pages. I went after this TB hotel at cache at night. When I was looking for it, I was approached by this guy who was obviously on crack asking what I was doing and told me that us “Minnesota People” shouldn’t be over there ‘Theiving’. I told him what I was doing over there was patronizing the Motel Sux, buying gas, and generally supporting their economy.
I need to hit a cache the weekend of Good Friday in Oconto, that’s outside the restricted area right?

[hogrod]

I always thought the fact Dane county charged fee’s for cache placement in county parks was ridiculous, now another county is going to do the same thing. I do believe dane Co. is charging $10 per year, so at least brown co. is only half price. 😆
I guess the land management has forgot that every person that comes to there park already has to get Dog,bike,boat,horse, &(did i forget any) permits to use the land already. more visitors(cachers) are already making them more money.

[Frizz]

You can make contact with the Brown County Parks Dept. through their website. I just sent this letter to them:

“Assistant Director Hartman,
I was recently made aware of a new county policy to charge a fee for placement of geocaches in Brown County parks. There has been a lot of discussion of this policy in the Wisconsin Geocaching website. I would like to give several reasons why I think that this policy should be reconsidered.
First, Geocaching is an activity that does not generate expenses for the parks department. There is no special equipment needed for the enjoyment of this sport. Geocachers often use areas of the park that are not normally used by other members of the public, and leave little environmental impact. The only potential expenses I could foresee is the paperwork to handle cache registrations.
Second, Although not a huge factor, many geocachers from around the state (as well as out of state) travel to the area to cache, and in the process buy gas, food, stay in hotels etc. Some areas of Wisconsin have actually embraced geocaching as a way to promote tourism. A fee will discourage expansion of geocaching and any resulting economic impact.
Third, Many of the geocachers in Wisconsin participate in activity called CITO, or cache in, trash out. Often I will carry a trash bag with me as I seek a cache, and will fill it up as I use the park. Geocachers as a group are very aware of the environment, and appreciate the park system as important recreational and ecological areas.
I would like to think that the Parks Department of Brown exist to promote the use of the parks, not to initiate policies that discourage their use. I personally had not visited any of the Brown County parks until I started geocaching, although I have lived in the area for 27 years. I would respectfully request that you reconsider the policies concerning geocaching in Brown County Parks. Thank you.”

If cachers from around the state send positive geocaching messages to the Brown County Parks, maybe we can have a positive effect on this policy.

[lagrac]

I just got done e-mailing the assistant director myself:

Dear Mr. Hartman,
I am writing today to ask about your county’s move to charge a fee for the placement of geocaches in county parks. I’m from Rushford,MN, but I travel to your part of Wisconsin quite frequently to geocache. I love the area’s natural beauty as well as all the friendly people. As an avid cacher, I feel as though this change in policy will only discourage caching in your area. Besides the economic benefits of attracting geocachers to your area (lodging, gas, food, etc), geocachers are very environmentally conscious. CITO… leave things better than you found them. I’ve personally cached in a part of Wisconsin where caching is totally promoted (Waukesha). So on behalf of myself, and the countless other geocachers that enjoy this incredible activity, could your department please reconsider this change in policy?

Thank You for Your Time,

Brett Cargal Rushford Minnesota

[GeoPink]

This should get good…

I wrote to the Board of Supervisors Recreation Committee Chair…

Supervisor Johnson,

I am writing to you as chair of the Brown County Education and Recreation Committee in regards to Brown County’s newly proposed, but not yet enacted policy in regards to geocaching in Brown County Parks. If you are unfamiliar with the sport of geocaching, please visit http://www.geocaching.com for some background information.

I am an elected member of the Wisconsin Geocaching Association Board of Directors and recently we’ve been informed by our membership about some disturbing developments in Brown County in regards to the future of our sport. My understanding is that currently under consideration is a proposal that would levy a $5 annual fee on any geocache placed in any of the Brown County Parks. To be frank, this is absurd.

Geocachers often travel large distances in order to find concentrations of geocaches. Brown County is one such area. Geocachers plan events to bring in geocachers from across the state into new places. Brown County has been host to several of these gatherings. Geocachers spend money and support businesses in the places they geocache. Brown County is one of the many places my family and I have personally spent money on geocaching trips. And finally, geocachers give back to the parks, forests, and lands on which we geocache. We practice CITO (Cache In, Trash Out), removing trash and junk from the parks while searching for our “treasures”. We host CITO events, where we spend an entire morning, afternoon, or both cleaning up parks that we’ve found to be in need. And now most recently, we are working with the Adopt – A – Highway program to help keep our roadways clean.

All of this is in jeopardy for Brown County. There have been several examples of governments trying to “tax” geocaches and not one has worked in their favor. Dane County and the Michigan DNR are two examples. Michigan is re-evaluating their policy and very few geocachers place caches anywhere in Dane County (county owned land or otherwise). Already, NE Wisconsin geocachers are looking unfavorably at Brown County. An example being in choosing our NE WI Adopt-A-Highway segment — odds are that in light of this proposed policy, the membership will not vote adopt one of several prime locations in Brown County.

What this comes down to is that several places, namely some counties in Northern WI and the Eau Claire Area have come to the exact opposite realization, that geocaching is a great way to bring tourist dollars into a community. I would hope that Brown County would take a good look at the real benefits that geocaching has brought to your area. I would hope that Brown County would wish for us to continue to support your economy by continuing to patronize your businesses and help beautify your parks. I would hope that Brown County would rethink this policy and do whats right for the people of NE Wisconsin.

Jeff Rahmlow
Wisconsin Geocaching Association
Board of Directors, VP

[Lostby7]

Keep up the great letters everyone!!!! Without a voice we wont be heard.

[zuma]

Hey guys,

Awesome letters. I will do one as well. Maybe if we get a lot of em sent, we can have a little impact on this.

Thanks to all who have written to Brown County.

zuma

[zuma]

What follows is my response to Doug Hartman, who I spoke with yesterday:

Dear Mr. Hartman,

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me yesterday about geocaching in Brown County. I do appreciate your honesty and openness in discussing the issue, though I strongly disagree with the proposal to charge a user fee for placing caches.

As we discussed yesterday, I believe that placing a fee on cache placements, will discourage people from placing geocaches in Brown County parks, and will make Brown County substantially less attractive as a destination choice for geo-tourists like myself.

It is quite rare for any park to require a fee to place a cache. I did an internet search on the topic, and posted a query to the geocaching forums, and it appears that only Dane County and the state of Michigan state parks currently have a fee system in place. As a result, neither of those places have many caches in place. In fact the Michigan DNR is considering rescinding their fee structure at this time due to concerns of Michigan geocachers, and the fact that many geocachers in Michigan simply quit purchasing state of Michigan park stickers and no longer visit the state parks due their fee on geocaches.

I am not a resident of Brown County, but I am a geo-tourist, that is someone who travels to interesting areas to hunt for geocaches. I have vistited 69 of Wisconsin’s 72 counties, 14 states, as well as England and Canada to geocache. I will not be visiting Brown County if a fee structure is put into place.

I believe that Brown County needs to know that real economic losses will be far greater from loss of tourism than the few dollars that might be raised by placing a fee on caches.

I am also an elected member of the Wisconsin Geocaching Association Board of Directors and have made our membership aware of this proposal. Like me, many of our members will avoid travel to Brown County to geocache, if the County places a fee on the placement of geocaches.

Our group, the Wisconsin Geocaching Associaton, holds two large events a year, a 3 day camping event in the spring, and a 1 day picnic in the fall. Last year the camping event was held in Door County and this year it will be held in Waupaca County. These events attract about 200 geocachers, and the site selected is different each time. At this time, I would be opposed to holding either of our annual events in Brown County.

You should also know that tourism officials in many parts of the state are acutely aware of the benefits of geo-tourism. I am currently working with the Chippewa Valley Tourism Board on an event that runs from April 14th to June 3rd in which geocachers, in cooperation with the tourism professionals, have placed 100 geocaches in a 3 county area. Last year, our event attracted over 3000 people to the area, and we expect even larger participation this year. Here is the web address that provides more information on our event in the Chippewa Valley:

http://www.geocachingwisconsin.com/index.cfm?event=postingpage

And the Chippewa Valley tourism officials are not alone in seeing the benefits of promoting geo-tourism. Officials in Rhinelander, St. Germain, and Boulder Junction are also doing a geocaching event this spring, an event that has already attracted my geo-tourism time and dollars to participate in. You can find more information on their event at this web address:

http://www.northwoodsgeocaching.com/

In conclusion, I hope that Brown County would take a good look at the real benefits that geocaching brings to the community as a family friendly activity for local people, and as a way for local people to enjoy the parks. I also want to make you aware of the economic losses that will result within Brown County by discouraging geotourists such as myself from visiting. I hope that this information will be helpful to you in reconsidering putting into place a fee for geocaches in Brown County.

Again, I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to me, and being honest about what Brown County is planning on doing with geocaches in your parks. If you need any further information, you may certainly contact me at 715-833-0403 or at [email protected].

Ralph Edwards

[zuma]

Hi all,

I also sent a similiar letter to the above to the Brown County Board of Supervisors.

Here is the address: [email protected]

I encourage you to write a short email to Brown County regarding the proposed fees, and request that the issue be placed on the agenda. Letters can be quite short, and to the point. Please make your email as friendly and nonconfrontational as possible, pointing out the benefits of geocaching.

Thank you.

zuma

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