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@jimandlinda wrote:
Why should a BOD’s position be neutral?
If all BOD’s positions were neutral, nothing would happen.
(Maybe that’s off topic,but it is still a valid question). ❓
I have to agree. I’ve been involved in a number of “board” (non caching related) positions over the last 6 years and you have to have an opinion. The key is that you’re held to a higher standard and expected to promote the cause. So enough about he said – she said, aren’t we all adults?
Let’s put the differences aside and talk about the real issue. Cache saturation shouldn’t be an issue in my opinion, but “quality” is. Quality is defined differently by many, but to me I’m fine with a good puzzle teaching me something about the area, a building, history, etc. I enjoy a walk to acquire the answers and am not disappointed by finding the final in a less than desireable location (bus stop, street sign, guardrail, etc.) to leave some other areas open for traditional caches. I’ll even restate what I said earlier about location – Location with history is much more interesting to me than just the plain location (think Washington DC).
My last post as well as the air is getting thick in here.
Zuma, as the VP of the WGA, you are a primary mouthpiece of the WGA body and your opinions do shape opinions of others. Agreed? I can see that you were trying to argue that a puzzle doesn’t means quality, and I can see that I wasn’t as clear about the connections I was trying to make between a good historical and education puzzle being better that a tree-hanger. I’ll give you that. But your comments, coming from the VP of WGA, seemed to be far more judgmental about a particular cachers hides that I would expect from a board member posting in these forums, one of the primary responsibilities of board members, if I remember correctly.
In much the same way that Marc’s opinions matter when he hosts events or takes people on puzzle tours by vocalizing his dislike of S|S puzzles, if only because he’s the oldest hound on the block, he does me a disservice because he, like you, caches with a ton of other Wisconsin cachers. Have you looked at your “I cached with…” list? Can you not see how I might get a little skittish if you’ve come to the conclusion that many S|S puzzles have no “quality” when you interact with that many cachers statewide? Now, maybe, unlike Marc, you’re not as vocal about your personal caching preferences and I actually think you aren’t, but put my shoes on for a minute, man, and see how they fit.
Of course you have personal opinions about the kind of caches you enjoy and the ones you don’t. We all do. Perhaps the thread would not have gone down this road if you had stated “In my personal opinion…S|S caches are not unique because they have no historical, location or architectural qualities”. Which, despite your subsequent explanations otherwise, is pretty much how your initial comment read. It is absolutely false. The depth of historical and educational caches that my puzzles cover on the history of the Fox Valley rivals the scope of your Yellowstone trail series.
If you re-read you initial statements and imagine yourself in my position, do you think that you would not be offended? I have thick skin and I can take it, if you’re expressing personal distaste for my caches. It’s harder to take opinion-shaping comments that falsely portray the quality and reward of many good puzzle caches. And I thank you for clarifying, that you do enjoy some of my puzzles, albiet a little late in the thread.
What was the title of this Post?
I personally feel that we are all entitled to place whatever kinda of cache wherever we want (with respect to certain rules, of course). If an area is saturated with caches so be it. If they are all owned by one person, oh well. That person got off their butt and made the effort to place the cache (s). Take the good with the bad!
Is this a WGA BOD election year?
@jimandlinda wrote:
Why should a BOD’s position be neutral?
If all BOD’s positions were neutral, nothing would happen.
(Maybe that’s off topic,but it is still a valid question). ❓
I don’t expect their position to be neutral on the issues. Everyone has different opinions and everyone has opinions about other people. But I think there is a big difference between articulating your opinion on an issue and the personal and insulting comments made above which are, unfortunately, not unprecedented.
On the Left Side of the Road...Ah, Alex, dont be so paranoid! My Puzzle tours are not to talk about your puzzles, but everyones!
My Tours are equal opportunity Tours. Whichever puzzle or cache we are searching for gets all the attention and talk. The fact that you have more puzzles out there than most other cachers combined, means you get talked about more often. More puzzles, more attention, more comparisons, more comments (both good or bad!).
Nothing I can do about others remembering the problems they have with your puzzles. That’s human nature, to remember bad over good. I do not actively encourage that!
What does a Tour do?
1. Group pooling of solving and hunting. More eyes certainly helps alot!
2. Geocachers getting a change to gab, socialize, etc.
3. Going to lunch!
4. Generally having a good time.What does a Tour not do?
1. Point out where the cache is.
2. Point out where the cache is.
3. Point out where the cache is.
4. Point out where the cache is.What purpose does a puzzle event serve? To encourage cachers to do puzzles! To show them how easy some are, and how hard others are.
You do get more than average attention here, because you have alot of unusual habits when constructing puzzles. Only fair to share knowledge of these, point out pitfalls and detours, to make it easier for others.@marc_54140 wrote:
What does a Tour do?
1. Group pooling of solving and hunting. More eyes certainly helps alot!
2. Geocachers getting a change to gab, socialize, etc.
3. Going to lunch!
4. Generally having a good time.You forgot:
5. Provide the puzzle solution to tour attendees who have invested no effort in solving the puzzle.
If I’m wrong on that, I stand corrected, but cache logs would indicate this is the case.
On the Left Side of the Road...As to the topic that the thread was stolen to, I don’t see the connection between “quality” and obtuse puzzles that S|S tries to make.
How can this be construed as an attack on S|S?
To me, an obtuse puzzle or a puzzle that tries to get me to google a topic that I have no interest in at all, is not a “quality” cache. If other folks like doing those, then great, go get em
Or this? Alex isn’t the only one hiding Google caches… Wisconsin is a LOT bigger than the Fox Valley.
Ah, the perverse pleasure of slowly pealing away a thick scab to get the blood flowing again… it tickles.
Another successful Meet & Greet in the Valley this past weekend and from what I hear, another successful puzzle solve ideas share. I was pleasantly surprised, however, to discover that not many people went out to do puzzles over the weekend, with one group exception and I was told that that group kept everything close to their chest at the event and for that I thank them.
Either the clues have all been shared or Marc has finally convinced everyone that I don’t want people to find my caches, so why bother? Boy, do I hope that’s the case…I do understand the desire to cache with friends and if you’re going to travel half-way across the state to a meet and greet, why wouldn’t you go with a bunch of your caching buddies? And well you should. But what I MAY NEVER GET A SATISFACTORY ANSWER for is why puzzle caches, that significant portions of these puzzle groups don’t solve, have to be part of that experience? Are there seriously not enough traditionals left for these number chasers to get in the Valley? Why not spend the day looking for traditionals and multi’s if your primary objective is to go caching with friends, not invest the time in front of a monitor screen?
Well OK, here’s a partial answer. The tour leader told me point blank that he enjoyed the challenge of my puzzles and that he was conflicted by liking that challenging aspect of caching but is also not one to go caching solo, especially far from home. I guess there is no easy solution to squaring these two elements and it will always be up to the individual to decide which is more important, following the wishes of the cache owner and geocaching.com’s expectation that cache finders solve the puzzle first, or following the desire to bring your cache buddies along to puzzle finals they played little to no part in solving. (yes, I know some members of the aforementioned tour contributed).
And, this cut both ways. I know, as I too have short-cut finds, though I reserve my own self-proclaimed right to short-cut each and every Marc cache I can find! But, at least I recognize that short-cutting hurts, not just the owner, but everyone who puts 6-12+ hours into solving a cache like Camelback Cinema | Espagueti Occidentales or doing the complicated gyrations to get to a solve on Tributary | Triangle of LOVE, JOY! only to have others log those same caches as a tour or because they stumbled upon it by accident and then shared the location. (BTW, you should actually sign the log book if you’re going to claim a find on a cache that is not frozen in).
Finally, since I also recognize that preaching to the choir won’t get me anywhere for those who can’t hear outside the congregation and will continue to follow their own desires, about the best I can do is lead by example. That is why I will be removing all of my finds for any cache that I did not significantly assist in solving, or outright solve (again with Marc’s caches being the exception). I do not want to be called a Judas Priest, with one exception, Marc, you can call me anything you like!
Judas Priest
1. (euphemism) A less vulgar term in place of the idiom Jesus Christ! commonly used in anger or surprise.
I do not want to be called a Judas Priest
I think you mean Judas Iscariot, not Judas Priest (although I may be incorrect)…
@greyhounder wrote:
I do not want to be called a Judas Priest
I think you mean Judas Iscariot, not Judas Priest (although I may be incorrect)…
Oh no! 😯 Don’t give S|S any more ideas. I’m still not done with the Real Gone series and now we’ve introduced a whole nother option. 😆 😆
@seldom|seen wrote:
… That is why I will be removing all of my finds for any cache that I did not significantly assist in solving, or outright solve (again with Marc’s caches being the exception).
Well, I’m honored to be …. Ah? Should I be honored? OK, I am!
Aw, go ahead, plan the game any way you like. After all there is no rule about how you find a cache, or if you should log it.
cache saturation or just a kick @$$ bike trail?
GC18G8PWOW– Road trip !!!! And it only 800 miles from home. Lets go and kick some A$$. LOL
@benny7210 wrote:
WOW– Road trip !!!! And it only 800 miles from home. Lets go and kick some A$$. LOL
I so would live to bike that trail!!!!!!
@benny7210 wrote:
WOW– Road trip !!!! And it only 800 miles from home. Lets go and kick some A$$. LOL
Let’s see. Two EarthCaches in a park .1 miles from each other? That’s “overkill.”
A few hundred traditional caches .1 miles apart from each other? That’s just great!
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 🙄
On the Left Side of the Road...
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