Caches in residental neighborhoods

[jseymour84]

@Team Deejay wrote:

And, while this particular case is a fairly new hider, there are several very experienced hiders doing virtually the same thing.

With regard to the handicapped issue, there is nothing wrong with “low terrain” or urban caches. The problem lies with boring, residential locations.

Maybe part of the solution is for someone to do an online video or a page here that talks about what makes a good hide and what doesn’t, then when we as members of WGA see another Wisconsin hider hide caches in boring residential areas we can politely direct them to that resource?

As a new hider myself I was fortunate to have most of my initial 20 finds be in wilderness areas so I could see the sport for what is was meant to be – a motivator to get people out into parks and wilderness areas that they may never have gone to otherwise.

Heck, if people post enough pointers for good hides in this thread or point me to an already published resource I’ll even make an online video and post it to YouTube – but be warned I do have a face for radio (look me up on youtube if you don’t believe me – same ID as I post under here).

[isjustus4]

@labrat_wr wrote:

And that is just what I hope it will be and not a discouragement from hiding or participating in the game altogether.

I wouldn’t discourage anybody from caching, nor do I think anyone is trying to by discussing this, either.

@-cheeto- wrote:

And one thing I’d add is that geocacher’s will continue to hide geocaches within site of the public and continue to place “urban hides”. It’s up to those of us that may choose to hunt these types to represent the activity the best we can when we come into contact with that paranoid public.

I also agree with this. The biggest problem I see here, is a lot of cachers eventually want to be owners, and use their creativity to hide caches also. Being in the area we live in, the area is already oversaturated with caches that have been around for a LONG time. Some of these are still around with an inactive owner(think Bearbear). Most of the interesting locations and parks have caches there already, so it is hard to find a “good” spot to place a new one with the exception of a boring, urban hide most of the time. If you are creative enough, even a semi urban hide can be fun and challenging, like Merc’s “over, under, around and through” series.

The funny thing there, is, there ARE a lot of cachers willing to go get these caches. Think those high #’s cachers in particular, or someone that wants a “quick fix”, or someone wanting to fill their cache a day stat.

I totally appreciate the fact that they are trying to add to the sport, or add to someone elses enjoyment by putting caches out there to find…..

Seems to be a fine line………

[Barry Butrymowicz]

@Muggle B wrote:

(with the exception of the actual CO’s cache on their land, like signal in Mountain)

Everyone needs to visit signal!

[jenhen1]

I’m tellin’ ya, if Groundspeak doesn’t adjust their cache hiding guidelines and their review process, law enforcement and local legislation will. There is absolutely no way a cache placed on the easement in front of a homeowner’s property should EVER be approved unless that specific homeowner is the cache placer. (and even that is sketchy)

Question: Is there a way our state association could set up our own set of placement guidelines and review caches based on Wisconsin’s own set of guidelines? Basically telling Groundspeak that what’s considered appropriate placement by you guys up in Seattle might not be in the best interest of us cachers here in Wisconsin. We could even have input from local law enforcement to come up with a mutually agreeable set. That way when Groundspeak objects we can at least say that law enforcement prefers it this way in Wisconsin.

[gotta run]

@Team Deejay wrote:

We are explicitly instructed not to consider the “quality” of hides, as this considered to be “not objective”.

Yes, and this is precisely the problem, and why these types of craptastic caches continue to happen. This is not your fault, this is groundspeak’s fault because they set the directives, and they are trying to have it both ways.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[Team Deejay]

@jenhen1 wrote:

I’m tellin’ ya, if Groundspeak doesn’t adjust their cache hiding guidelines and their review process, law enforcement and local legislation will. There is absolutely no way a cache placed on the easement in front of a homeowner’s property should EVER be approved unless that specific homeowner is the cache placer. (and even that is sketchy)

Question: Is there a way our state association could set up our own set of placement guidelines and review caches based on Wisconsin’s own set of guidelines? Basically telling Groundspeak that what’s considered appropriate placement by you guys up in Seattle might not be in the best interest of us cachers here in Wisconsin. We could even have input from local law enforcement to come up with a mutually agreeable set. That way when Groundspeak objects we can at least say that law enforcement prefers it this way in Wisconsin.

Unfortunately, this can’t happen either. We can have local guidelines if they are required by law, ordinance, or administrative rule, but not just because we think we know better or that someone prefers it. Remember that we have to balance both sides of the equation as well. Apparently the hiders think that this is the most brilliant idea in the world, and they feel picked on when we try to get them to move their placement. The funny thing is that the cache that was archived by Groundspeak was not at all the worst example of these hides. It was in a guardrail at a dead end, with the other side of the guardrail being railroad property. The complaining homeowner had to be on either side of the street. I’m sure we have all found caches like this, and most of us have probably placed one or two.

As a reviewer, I cringe every time I see the word “stealth” in a cache listing. This almost always means that the cache is hidden in a public place, often without permission. As a player, I make it a point not to be “stealthy” when seeking caches, inviting neighborhood children, nearby homeowners, etc to be in on the secret. Most homeowners don’t mind and like the idea, but for those that do object, I let them know the proper procedure to get the cache archived (that would be “email me”, but I obviously just take care of it for them.) You guys can also just take care of it for them, by sending me an email indicating you had an issue with a property owner or other concerned party.

[-cheeto-]

@jenhen1 wrote:

There is absolutely no way a cache placed on the easement in front of a homeowner’s property should EVER be approved unless that specific homeowner is the cache placer. (and even that is sketchy)

Well-said and I agree.

[Hardinfam]

I happen to place all of the caches on the terrace which is public land. I happen to have one on my front terrace so that we can socialise with other cachers. Most of them were placed with the neighbours knowledge of what it is. Some even know me personally and I acknowledge them in the description or name. Yes some people don’t undrstand the impact of having one near them. (I do try to warn them) They were designed for family walks in the neighbourhood. The biggest problem with these are the “go getters” who have to have a cache so bad that they make an A$$ of themselves looking for it. I have had to apologise for them counts of times on the trail. If you want to have hate do it toward that attitude. If you don’t like my hides don’t look for them. It will reduce traffic to those caches and everyone will be happy.

I am working on better descriptions though to address this issue

[-cheeto-]

@Hardinfam wrote:

The biggest problem with these are the “go getters” who have to have a cache so bad that they make an A$$ of themselves looking for it.

You will never be able to control the actions of those who hunt your caches. This holds true whether it’s an “urban hide” like yours or a cache in a state park where perhaps finders are tearing apart the vegetation. Or finders don’t re-close containers properly or re-hide properly.

If you place a cache, it will be hunted, by many different types of people.

Sometimes, being a cache owner and maintaining means removing, moving, or adjusting a cache hide because finders are not acting in the best of the activity or obeying your wishes (such as using a certain parking area or certain approach).

Just remember, that the (in the know) “neighbors” are not the only one’s who will see people hunt these caches. Visitors, people driving by, people walking by, etc. It is good to hear that you have informed the neighbors. It would be good information to include on the write-ups that you have.

There are many differing opinions here and I haven’t really interpreted any of the comments as “hate”.

Greetings to the WGA forum and thanks for giving back to the activity by placing new geocaches.

[isjustus4]

And that is why I directed you to this thread, so you can read what is being discussed, and also post if you thought you wanted to.

As far as your “go getter” comment, I don’t know it that was directed at me, or just anyone that goes for FTFs, but I will say, I have NEVER caused a problem, or scene when I go get a cache. I am always respectful, and there have been numerous times that I will skip a cache when other non cacher people are in the general vicinity. And, I am never in a hurry to find it. ie. trampling, running around, etc… Of course, I only speak for myself, and no one else.

Also, as to socializing with other cachers, it used to be that going for FTF’s was a good(and fun) way to do that. As of the last couple months, less cachers are chasing them, including myself. I still will, just not ALL of them, if the timing is right. Another good place is events.

Now, your permission thing. Are you saying I could walk up to any of the houses where you have a “public property” terrace cache, and ask if permission was given? Given the Archive on GC2YXAF, I don’t know that I believe that. Now, I know this isn’t a terrace, in front of someones house, but on GC2YKVA do you know that there is a No Tresspassing sign within about 15 feet of the cache? I grew up playing in the woods here, and would have placed a cache there a long time ago, if not for the fact that it is posted No Trespassing. Just because it’s at the edge of the woods line, doesn’t mean cachers won’t go in, and look for it.

If you’d like to socialize sometime, I’ll be more than happy to go grab some caches with you sometime. I haven’t been out caching much lately.

[Hardinfam]

First my term go getter is to the people who “shake the sign to remove it” (that is from the resident who complained about it). I originally had a nano there and it was stolen on the first day. I was going to wait to buy a new one or make one but my wife was furious some one was careless. The other one was strategically placed so that it wasn’t on there property with no trespassing. Groundspeak did have concerns at the precise coordinates on that. I had to use Google maps mine and my wife’s GPS to ensure accuracy. I personally have gotten to a GZ and had to pass a no trespessing sign just to get to it from the road.

If you could please check or recheck my http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC2y181&Submit6=Go
I recently upgraded the container to be more hidden. It isn’t an urban hide. Only the cows to be muggles.

And if you want to cache sometimes my family would love extra help with the supposed kid friendly ones that the kids can’t find( me neither for that matter)

ps talk to the cranky old man at Squirrel says “Its your tree” he is a friend. He is getting his grandsons into geocaching.

[Team Black-Cat]

@Hardinfam wrote:

They were designed for family walks in the neighbourhood. The biggest problem with these are the “go getters”…

Regarless of how you “designed” the series and how you want people to search for them, you cannot control that aspect.

It’s easy enough to say “If you don’t like it, don’t look for it”, but the fact is, people will look for them. New cachers won’t know if they like caches like this or not until after they have looked. Some cachers look for every cache in their “circle”. You will never control who looks for your caches, or how they look for them. It would be best to consider the possibilities beforehand.

[CodeJunkie]

I must say that I’m just happy this cacher likes the sport enough to actually place a few caches. This is way more than many cachers do.

[Todd300]

I was in Green Bay today to pick up a few things at the mall…I now know why I stopped caching in Green Bay.

Just too many caches in residential neighborhoods. I visited 4 caches. I found 1 and only because it was a bit secluded from the neighborhood. I walked away from 2 of them because they were in plain view of people’s houses even though they were in small parks. And the last was a DNF because the coords were 50 feet off and the CO still has not updated them.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t feel comfortable caching in a residential neighborhood. Ground Zero just should not be in plain view of private residences, whether it’s on public or private land.

The bomb scare by Cormier School some time ago is a great example why.

[Team_Sandman]

@Todd300 wrote:

I was in Green Bay today to pick up a few things at the mall…I now know why I stopped caching in Green Bay.

Just too many caches in residential neighborhoods. I visited 4 caches. I found 1 and only because it was a bit secluded from the neighborhood. I walked away from 2 of them because they were in plain view of people’s houses even though they were in small parks. And the last was a DNF because the coords were 50 feet off and the CO still has not updated them.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t feel comfortable caching in a residential neighborhood. Ground Zero just should not be in plain view of private residences, whether it’s on public or private land.

The bomb scare by Cormier School some time ago is a great example why.

I have a residential cache 295 ft from my huse that I posted all my neighbors know its there and if they see people looking for it they leave them alone.

There also is a cache I did in Green Bay not to long ago that was on a non-cachers property and you had to go onto there lawn to get the cache, that one was a little weird for us.

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