Caches in residental neighborhoods

[Lostby7]

@Todd300 wrote:

I was in Green Bay today to pick up a few things at the mall…I now know why I stopped caching in Green Bay.

Just too many caches in residential neighborhoods. I visited 4 caches. I found 1 and only because it was a bit secluded from the neighborhood. I walked away from 2 of them because they were in plain view of people’s houses even though they were in small parks. And the last was a DNF because the coords were 50 feet off and the CO still has not updated them.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t feel comfortable caching in a residential neighborhood. Ground Zero just should not be in plain view of private residences, whether it’s on public or private land.

The bomb scare by Cormier School some time ago is a great example why.

I agree with your statements. Caches should 99% of the time be out of view of the general public (in particular a private residence)…there is room for a 1% but the reasoning should be exceptional…

[jerrys dad]

My opinion: this thread seems to be I don’t like it so let’s change it. If it’s not the way I wanna play we need toc hange it so everyone plays like I do. It might not have been meant that way but to some that is the way it will be taken.

@jseymour84 wrote:

the reviewers really do not have much of a choice but to publish these “inferior” caches.

The only options I can think of now are A) lobby the reviewers to remove the listing, … so the reviewers have the option to reject lesser quality caches.

So there will be a group of people to say this one stays or goes because they like what it represents to them? Not everybody caches the same or likes the same kinds of caches so what is inferior to you might be an enjoyable for someone else.

I know the majority here don’t like them but easy/short walk to get a cache is the only ones I can do right know. I’ve come down with a respritory disease that doesn’t allow me to take in full breaths of oxygen. Anything over 100′ or so is going to take me out of breath.I can do a couple of these but not all day or consecutively. All the bashing of basically PNG’s is what I’m left with. If we get rid of all of theses because the majority doesn’t like them, I’m done playing by somebody elses choice!

@Team Deejay wrote:

Most homeowners don’t mind and like the idea, but for those that do object, I let them know the proper procedure to get the cache archived (that would be “email me”, but I obviously just take care of it for them.) You guys can also just take care of it for them, by sending me an email indicating you had an issue with a property owner or other concerned party.

I see this leading to trouble if it gets around and somebody doesn’t like a particular urban cache. I’m not calling anybody a liar, but I can see it happening and then we have caches being archieved for the wrong reasons.

[CodeJunkie]

I see what you’re saying Jerry’s Dad, but I think there’s a distinction. A P&G in a guardrail at a dead end road can be quite different than a P&G attached to a fire hydrant in someone’s front yard.

I sure hope things turn around for you and you get on to the road to recovery. Hopefully you’ll be able to use this hobby to build your system up as you progress.

[gotta run]

Go back and read the initial post. This refers to caches in people’s front yards.

There is a place for park and grabs in this game and we’ve placed some ourselves. But that place is not in the easement in front of someone’s house.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[-cheeto-]

@jerrys dad wrote:

If it’s not the way I wanna play we need toc hange it so everyone plays like I do.

I have a hard time believing there are that many geocachers who would enjoy hunting a cache in a tree in front of someone’s house between the sidewalk and the street.

I could care less how other people want to “play” or about making them “play” the way I do.

However, I do care about how the general public and municipalities view geocaching. If the City of Appleton decided this geocaching “thing” was getting out of hand because now they’re being put in trees in front of houses and then decided, no geocache placements in the City Parks that’s a huge step backwards for the game. It only takes one bomb scare or call to the police and an alderman to pick up on this and that could be what could happen.

This thread is about stuff in my backyard (well actually front yards) so I can comment on my opinion, thanks.

I just wish the Groundspeak reviewers (and Groundspeak as a company) could see it this way.

I keep going back to how critical the WI reviewers were of one of my first cache placements when it was disabled pre-publish because it was viewed to be “a parking lot cache” and how I should think about this placement more. There was OPINION there. There was a feeling that the reviewers we’re making sure you were sure about your placement and how it would be viewed by finders.

Somewhere along the way we went from reviewers who we’re critical of stuff like this to reviewers who “hold their nose and hit publish”.

I’m not trying to point fingers at Wizkid and Bec in specific. They do a thankless, time consuming thing for no pay. That’s much more than any of us do (including the WGA BOD) for the activity.

I would just like to see these types of caches be scrutinized to death pre-publish. That’s all.

Make the owner submit pictures of the placement. Ask them if they let ALL homeowners within site of the cache know it’s there and what to expect because it’s there. Ask them if they would like to hunt a cache in some other city in someone else’s front yard. Ask them if they would like to be questioned by city police because someone thinks they’re a pedophile or thief or whatever else. Ask them the same question I was asked when I tried to publish a “parking lot cache” back in 2007.

In some ways, this transition to “play it how you like it” has really taken this game backwards rather than forwards. There’s still an element of what Geocaching has always been about hidden, out there in those county and state parks.

I fell in love with Geocaching because it was hiking, in the woods, and finding some place that couldn’t be found without my GPS.

I can find a tree, in a front yard, between a sidewalk and the street without a GPS. Without any “a ha moments”. Without the challenge of an actual hunt. I drive by these locations every day to work and back. I’m really not interested in stopping.

Thanks but no thanks. There. I’ve said my peace.

[Muggle B]

Very well put Cheeto!!

I started this thread without even thinking of what us geocachers think about the hides. I started it because of what all the outsiders are going to think of these hides.

I was handcuffed and patted down one day (first time in my life) while out geocaching in the middle of a public park, at noon, on a tuesday. My suspicious behavior (hanging around a pine tree) was enough to raise attention for the police to get involved. I was more than 200′ from any house and someone felt uneasy with me being there. I can’t imagine how they would feel if I got within 30′

Again this thread was never started with fingers pointed at any one (reviewers/placers) but just to raise awareness that the public does watch us play our game, and we should respect them. Just because all the groundspeak rules apply to the cache, we should still be aware of the attention the cache will draw.

Do we have to find them, No as I stated right away I will not. But I know they won’t stop the # people. And we all know people in it for the numbers have one thing on their mind. And its not protecting the integrity of the game piece or respecting the public. And once the cache is placed, there is nothing to stop these type of cachers from doing their thing. Which in turn gives geocaching a bad name.

[Team Black-Cat]

This post might be just a little off topic for this thread but it sorta fits.

I’m sure this has been suggested to Groundspeak already, but I couldn’t find it in their silly feedback thing.

Wouldn’t it be nice if geocache listings had to be “renewed” after one or two years? Just a little “renew this listing” link on the cache page is all it would take.

Not every cache needs to live forever, and there are already more caches than any cacher could hope to find. Many of these caches have been abandoned for years and are taking up spots that could be recycled for new cachers.

It’s almost certain that as soon as an “expired” cache goes off the map a new cacher will grab the spot, so the total number of caches really wouldn’t change. What would change is that a lot of “good” places to hide a cache would be put back into play.

With better places to hide a cache, maybe new cachers won’t try to hide a cache in someone’s driveway.

[Walkingadventure]

For me it’s about imagination. Where can I find an exciting place to hide one, etc.

Tools like http://www.freemaptools.com and http://www.gpsvisualizer.com make it easier to find ways to shoehorn in another cache amongst all the others out there.

Like the idea of mentoring but would there be interest in this idea or workshop?

Who wouldn’t like to be under the Wing of Protection from WA?

Following the signals from space.

[CodeJunkie]

I wish there was a way to verify how the user got their coordinates for the hide. It’s obvious some new caches are being placed via cell-phone coordinates and the CO’s aren’t verifying the location by seeing how it plots on a map.

I take multiple averaged readings normally with my Garmin eTrex. I also compare these to the online maps from Google and Bing to verify they look reasonable. This is obviously a lot of work, but I think it’s necessary given the variety of ways that people hunt caches.

[labrat_wr]

I have only placed one cache using my phone for coords and I did mention that on a log to the page. Also included that the coords would be verified by handheld as soon as I had a chance to return.
I don’t always have my handheld with me so when I cache via phone gps, I often find myself way off GZ so I can only imagine how far off I could be if the cache was placed with a phone and I was using my phone to seek it. 100-200ft? More?

Disclaimer : Always answering to a higher power.

[conductorBrian]

I’ve used a phone in the past for getting coordinates for hides, because at the time my GPS (Explorist 100) didn’t do averaging. But on the same note I would then turn around and put the coordinates into the GPS and then validate how sane they were.

If you let a smart phone average for a long enough period of time it will give you reasonably decent results. I beleive most of the bad coordinates are from people that take a single GPS reading and don’t do any averaging at all.

[labrat_wr]

@conductorBrian wrote:

I’ve used a phone in the past for getting coordinates for hides, because at the time my GPS (Explorist 100) didn’t do averaging. But on the same note I would then turn around and put the coordinates into the GPS and then validate how sane they were.

If you let a smart phone average for a long enough period of time it will give you reasonably decent results. I beleive most of the bad coordinates are from people that take a single GPS reading and don’t do any averaging at all.

agree! though I do know of one cacher that takes the averaging to the extreme, taking multiple readings, multiple days, multiple weather conditions and editing for a 0.001 M difference on a device with best accuracy of 20 ft. (not that there is anything wrong with that 😆 )

Disclaimer : Always answering to a higher power.

[JimandLinda]

One of our earliest posts in 2008 was a question about Archiving a cache after 2-3 years, to open the spot up for new caches. I was slightly chastised for such a thought! Caches are permanent game pieces!

Now we have some new players in the Valley that want to hide some caches close enough to maintain (which is a ‘Hide’ guideline, by the way). They could drive 10-15 miles out of town to DNR land, but urban caching is their thing.

Maybe a few of those puzzle hides that get 1 finder/year have run their course. Our 3K Tribute cache (which we found on Super Bowl Sunday) has 1 smilie. We are honored for the cache placement, but if this was in the FRV area, I would request an Archive to open the area up.
It must be even more frustrating for new cache hiders now than it was for us 3 years ago.

I still think that a good guideline for hiding a cache is, “Find 100 caches, then place your first hide”. If this guideline was followed, it would eliminate inexperienced cachers from getting frustrated with their placements. It would also give the Reviewers a neutral point for denying a cache placement. “Find 100, then hide a cache”.

[sandlanders]

@JimandLinda wrote:

“Find 100, then hide a cache”.

So they’ll go out and find a quick 100 P&Gs. 🙄

[Mister Greenthumb]

@sandlanders wrote:

@JimandLinda wrote:

“Find 100, then hide a cache”.

So they’ll go out and find a quick 100 P&Gs. 🙄

now we’ve gone full circle – it’s hopeless

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