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I totally disagree with the whole “liability” angle. The state allows us to hunt, hike, fish, ATV, snowmobile, camp, etc, etc, etc. on their land.
How would geocaching be a liability concern any more than all those other things?
The only liability is that the person giving permission might get his *** chewed for approving anything other than the ordinary.
I’ve yet to place a cache. The past couple weeks I’ve located some local areas on a map, and have about 10 parks on a list for places to possibly put a cache.
I was under the impression that I was pretty much required to ask for permission before placing a cache. (From geocaching.com website: “By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.”) So color me a teensy bit confused here.
Some of you are saying to not bother asking for permission. I can see that side of the argument – why bother asking if you’re going to be told no, when it’s public land anyhow that *anyone* could be hiking on.
But I see the other side of the argument too – that by asking permission, we can only benefit the organization by appearing as responsible users of the parks. And we can prevent problems such as what happened with GCHA0W (“Towering Over the Grove”) where a *geomuggle* stumbled upon the ammo can cache, called the cops, and the bomb squad was called in…. (There was a group of deputies that wasn’t too pleased with it, and because of that situation, I will never be using an ammo can as a cache. Tupperware looks a lot more innocent, lol.)
Anyone want to clarify their position? This newbie cache placer would appreciate it.
~MF
quote:
Originally posted by fishcachers:
I was under the impression that I was pretty much required to ask for permission before placing a cache. (From geocaching.com website: “By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.”)
~MFThere is a grey area here which is the reason 90% of the present caches in Wisconsin exist at all.
Most simply put, if a public property has not enacted a policy against hiking, biking, walking, (or geocaching), it is assumed that it must be ok to do so. By not having said that we can’t do it, it must be ok then, right? Permission is assumed, since no rule has been placed stating otherwise.
Bottom line is that permission is a good thing. If there are no rules, we act at our own risk.
My personal opinion is that if you are hiding a cache in a location where the chances of you or other cachers being witnessed are little or none, there is very little risk in utilizing the grey area that exists.
An interesting thread here.
[This message has been edited by Cathunter (edited 04-02-2005).]
I prefer the “Frisbee Rule”. If I would feel comfortable playing frisbee in the location without asking permission to do so, then I’ll place a cache there without seeking permission as well, unless the location already has an existing geocaching policy in place.
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Originally posted by Cathunter:
An interesting thread here.Wow. About an hour later and I’m finally done reading that thread! It really was interesting.
~MF
quote:
Originally posted by Cheesehead Dave:
I prefer the “Frisbee Rule”. If I would feel comfortable playing frisbee in the location without asking permission to do so, then I’ll place a cache there without seeking permission as well, unless the location already has an existing geocaching policy in place.I have seen where you place your caches. There is no way one could play frisbee there with or without permission!
quote:
Originally posted by sbukosky:
…Make them member only. This way there is a better arguement that participants know and understand geocaching guidelines. Further, minimize the cacher’s exposure time to muggles by providing a good clue where the cache is. And finally, put on the cache page that if a state vehicle or car with state plates is in parked there, pass it up. Better to keep the profile low. …
A very good idea. I agree.
Although I am very much into the covert aspects of the game, what does it look like to state on a cache page “if the authorities are in the vicinity, don’t try it” ???
This is absolutly not the impression we want to leave on people when they are learning about geocaching. Not to mention that there are geocachers who are land managers, police, DNR employees, etc, etc. I’m sure some of those folks are paying members, who can see the members only caches as easily as you or I.
Using members-only caches to reduce the muggle factor? Yes!
Using members-only caches to share something explicitly with other PAYING geocachers? YES![This message has been edited by Cathunter (edited 04-07-2005).]
I beieve WI has a recreation liabiity protection law. If you own land, and it is open to recreation or used for recreation, you can’t be held liable unless you deliberately have or do something hazardous.
As a relatively newby to geocaching and not yet a premium member I can also see the benifits to member only caches. BUT… does a member only cache protect from Muggles? I’m not so sure about that one. Most muggles most likely stumble across a cache by accident is my guess. Which means all of us should use more caution at approaching a cache site and not attempt one if there are folks looking or in the area.
As far as the rest areas are concerned, I think the answer you got was more political than anything. Think about it, you get an email from someone asking to place a container at a rest area. Your a goverment worker, your first thought is ” geez more work for me to do, picking up trash, etc” you answer “NO”.I happen to work for the state myself, I can tell you that the first rule of state service it “CYA” or cover your… butt.
Regarding something like Geocaching, unless they have been told it is OK from a higher up, they will most likely say no.
The common attitude is If you don’t know or are unsure of the answer, always say no. It is easier say no, and if you are wrong, remember it for next time, than it is to try to say yes and have to take it back.
The local manager is not the one to take it up with, he will always say no because he doesn’t want to be wrong, or set a precedent that he doesn’t have the authority to set. You should go over his head, wherever that is.
geocaching’s oldest newbie!There is nothing wrong with keeping a low profile or avoiding drawing attention to yourself from the authorities. I’ve been detained by New Berlin police (two squads) in Minooka park simply because someone thought I was doing something suspicious. All I’m saying is to avoid the hassle.
Steve Bukosky
Waukeshaquote:
Originally posted by sbukosky:
There is nothing wrong with keeping a low profile or avoiding drawing attention to yourself from the authorities. I’ve been detained by New Berlin police (two squads) in Minooka park simply because someone thought I was doing something suspicious. All I’m saying is to avoid the hassle.
It’s nice to hear that I’m not the only one to be stopped by the New Berlin police while out caching. Only my stop was because a white van had just been used in a robbery and my van looked suspicious parked at the end of a dead end street.
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