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@digital_dan wrote:
There really won’t be much of a problem here in Wisconsin with caches on DNR land, because very few will go to that much effort to get them approved. So, the end result will be the same, No caches on DNR land. Does it really matter if it comes by way of the DNR saying, “No Caching allowed” or by default “No one placing caches on DNR land”?
I guess time will tell.
From personal experience, I have a cache at Bong which needed to be retroactively submitted. It was an excruciating five minutes to fill out the DNR form, and another agonizing minute folding the form and putting it into an envelope. (I almost cut my tongue licking the flap!) I was close to asking for help in addressing the letter, but I managed to do it on my own and even survived the trip out to the mailbox. I got back inside the house and I was spent. I had the Cheese Doodles bring me a beer and I spent the rest of the day crashed out on the couch.
It was a painful ten minutes of my life, gone forever. I can see why this would be a deterrent for future cache hiders.
🙄
LOL Cheesehead Dave. I’m sorry but that’s a 10 minutes I have yet to bring myself to to terms with. I think I need some one with a cattle prod to come over and provide me with some incentive.
—EDIT—
*OUCH OK I did it; the forms (3) took me 10 minutes to fill out and address. The hardest part was to find the park mgr. I’m suddenly thankful that I have placed caches in only one state park.*@digital_dan wrote:
There really won’t be much of a problem here in Wisconsin with caches on DNR land, because very few will go to that much effort to get them approved. So, the end result will be the same, No caches on DNR land. Does it really matter if it comes by way of the DNR saying, “No Caching allowed” or by default “No one placing caches on DNR land”?
I hope that doesn’t turn out to be the case Dan. I think we need to hang in there and follow the guidelines. If we see some major problems, I will be glad to address it with the DNR.
Hopefully the denials are few and far between.
Let’s try to keep moving in a positive direction 🙂 Time will tell.
I have a call in right now to the DNR Wildlife Manager to request approval of a new placement in a local wildlife area. I have the form all filled out and ready to go, but I wanted to personally speak with the land manager prior to sending out the form just to make sure I am following the newly established ground rules and get his approval. I will let you know what he has to say when he returns my call.
I also have tried to make contact with the local manager here. I just want to get his feelings before getting a cache ready. I have a couple spots in mind. I will post the results as soon as I hear.
This is a great bit of HTML code put together by one of our members on a geocache they placed on DNR property after they submitted the form.
Thanks to Draconis!
The Geocache Notification Form for this cache has
been submitted to the personnel at the Forest Headquarters of
Southern Unit Kettle Moraine State Forest.
Geocaches placed on Wisconsin Department of Natural Resouce managed
lands require permission by means of a notification form. Please
print out a paper copy of the notification form, fill in all
required information, then submit it to the land manager. The DNR
Notification form and land manager information can be obtained
at:<a href=
"http://www.wi-geocaching.com/modules.php?name=Wiki&pagename=Hiding%20A%20Cache">
http://www.wi-geocaching.com/modules.php?name=Wiki&pagename=Hiding%20A%20Cache
.
My Beef with the DNR Policy is this……… Who else in the General Public (Of which we, Geocachers are a part of), has to Notify the DNR that they intend to use a specific piece of DNR land?? Does a Hunter have to notify the DNR that they are going to Hunt on a particular piece of DNR land? NO. Does a Hunter have to notify the DNR that they are going to put up a deer stand? (I doubt it) Does a Fisherman have to notify the DNR that they intend to fish on a particular lake? NO. Does a Snowmobiler have to Notify the DNR that they intend to use a particular DNR Trail? NO. Or a Skier that they intend to be skiing on a particular piece of DNR land. NO. Even in the SNA, I know of no other members of the public that have to notify the DNR they intend to use DNR land. Does the DNR have a problem with ALL Hunters when they find out some hunter has done something he shouldn’t have done, and then just band Hunting on DNR land? NO. Does the DNR ban boating on lakes managed by the DNR because a few boaters violate some rules or use the waterways inappropriately? NO. Does the DNR Ban Hiking on DNR land because they find that some hikers have left trash along the paths (Not to my knowledge, or there wouldn’t be any trails to hike on now) How do you think all the other users of DNR land would feel if THEY had to send in a Notification form so they don’t upset the DNR in their use of DNR land? and then have the possibility of being told NO, you can’t use the land. As tax payers we have bought the land, pay to have it maintained, pay to use it (you know that $20 a year annual sticker fee) and then are told you must notify us if you want to actually USE the land??? That’s why I say I wish we had never approached the DNR about the use of DNR land for Geocaching!! By doing so, we’ve given them way more control than they should have, and in doing so we are the community that must pay the price for allowing them to “Tell us what we MUST do” It’s wrong, especially when they have very few cases where a geocache has actually caused a problem. In fact, I’m absolutely SURE they have had more trouble with Hunting, Fishing, Boating and just about any other thing people use DNR land for, than they have, or ever will have with Geocaching, yet they don’t band any of those activities. I refuse to submit a form telling the DNR I’ll be using State land for Geocaching. Of course, I’ll have to live by that decision as we can’t approve our own caches, which to me will mean, “No caches on DNR land” OK, this is all I’m going to say on this subject, no use beating on a dead horse.
@digital_dan wrote:
My Beef with the DNR Policy is this……… Who else in the General Public (Of which we, Geocachers are a part of), has to Notify the DNR that they intend to use a specific piece of DNR land?? Does a Hunter have to notify the DNR that they are going to Hunt on a particular piece of DNR land? NO. Does a Hunter have to notify the DNR that they are going to put up a deer stand? (I doubt it) Does a Fisherman have to notify the DNR that they intend to fish on a particular lake? NO.
No, but they still need to be licensed to hunt and fish on DNR land. Not exactly the same, but I can’t just grab my gun and run around shooting critters whenever and wherever I feel.
Does a Snowmobiler have to Notify the DNR that they intend to use a particular DNR Trail? NO. Or a Skier that they intend to be skiing on a particular piece of DNR land. NO. Even in the SNA, I know of no other members of the public that have to notify the DNR they intend to use DNR land.
True, but generally those activities don’t involve leaving the developed trails and abandoning boxes of stuff in the woods.
Does the DNR have a problem with ALL Hunters when they find out some hunter has done something he shouldn’t have done, and then just band Hunting on DNR land? NO. Does the DNR ban boating on lakes managed by the DNR because a few boaters violate some rules or use the waterways inappropriately? NO. Does the DNR Ban Hiking on DNR land because they find that some hikers have left trash along the paths (Not to my knowledge, or there wouldn’t be any trails to hike on now)
This I more or less agree with. It’s a shame that in some parts of the country, a few people have spoiled geocaching and have galvanized officials against it. The DNR policy has the advantage of giving officials they need to trget the bad apples instead of making blanket generalizations about the entire geocaching community.
How do you think all the other users of DNR land would feel if THEY had to send in a Notification form so they don’t upset the DNR in their use of DNR land? and then have the possibility of being told NO, you can’t use the land. As tax payers we have bought the land, pay to have it maintained, pay to use it (you know that $20 a year annual sticker fee) and then are told you must notify us if you want to actually USE the land???
Question: When you go camping in a state park, do you register to camp at one of the regular sites, or do you just hike into the woods and pitch your tent anywhere you please? There are some outdoor activities that involve more than just walking around and enjoying the scenery, and I’m sure the DNR, charged with maintaining the land, would prefer to have a little bit of control to make sure that these activities aren’t badly impacting the land.
It’s not like you’re being forced to pay an extra fee or anything. Do you complain that you have to pay extra for a hunting or fishing license on top of your park sticker fees?
That’s why I say I wish we had never approached the DNR about the use of DNR land for Geocaching!! By doing so, we’ve given them way more control than they should have, and in doing so we are the community that must pay the price for allowing them to “Tell us what we MUST do” It’s wrong, especially when they have very few cases where a geocache has actually caused a problem.
It’s called being proactive. As someone mentioned earlier, note the Minnesota, Illinois, or NPS policies…
In fact, I’m absolutely SURE they have had more trouble with Hunting, Fishing, Boating and just about any other thing people use DNR land for, than they have, or ever will have with Geocaching, yet they don’t band any of those activities.
They’re not banned, but you can’t do them without a license/permit/registration of some sort.
I refuse to submit a form telling the DNR I’ll be using State land for Geocaching. Of course, I’ll have to live by that decision as we can’t approve our own caches, which to me will mean, “No caches on DNR land”
I’m sorry you feel that way, but really, that will just make land available for other cachers who don’t see this policy as negatively as you do.
OK, this is all I’m going to say on this subject, no use beating on a dead horse.
There’s been discussion of the WGA working on a policy with the DNR for years. Now we have one in place that’s only barely more restrictive than “No Policy At All” and suddenly people are all up in arms over it. I don’t get it. Where have these concerns been hiding all this time?
I agree with Digital Dan in spirit. It might seem nice to do whatever the heck we want on State Land, but that’s not the reality.
I don’t have the notify the DNR that I’m out deer hunting, but I’m not allowed to put up a permenant tree stand because I want to and I pay taxes.
I don’t have to tell the DNR that I’m going for an ATV ride, but I need to stay on established ATV trails or face a fine.
If Geocaching only involved a hike, I can agree with Dan’s argument. We do however, leave very expensive tupperware in the woods.
Hunting, fishing, and snowmobiling have been around for a long time. Look at all the laws that apply to each on State Owned lands. Geocaching has been around for about 6 years. We only have 2 restrictions: 1- Tell the DNR where you have the cache. 2- Stay out of SNA’s. When we see a 30 page Geocaching law publication, such as hunting and fishing, then I’d start to be concerned.
To me this policy is like asking a farmer if you can snowmobile on his property. He might say “sure, just stay off the winter wheat field”. Is it then unfair because you can’t snowmobile on the entire property? Or how about your kid asking a business if they can go-kart in the parking lot on the weekends. The Owner might say “no problem- just stay off the new asphalt over there”. Is this unfair because we should be able to gokart on the entire property? The DNR has said to us “no problem – just let us know where the cache is at, and stay out of the SNA’s”.
No one has an absolute right to do whatever they want on State owned lands. However much we’d like to believe that philosphy, it’s just not the case.
Just a thought that popped in my head — the state can fine you for littering. If they were to come across a cache without a permit, could that possibly be considered littering? It’s easy enough to find out who placed the cache (even without a permit).
Bec
If having a Policy with the DNR is Good for caches on state land, then it should also be Good to have a Policy with the management of every other public property. Right? All the arguments for a DNR Policy would apply to those as well it would seem to me. Why would the managers of County and City Parks across the state feel any different about the lands they manage. Shouldn’t we proactively seek a Policy from them as well? In fact, we have more to loose from being banded from like Milwaukee County Parks & City Parks than we do from State Land, since there are a lot more caches on County & City land than on State Land.
@digital_dan wrote:
If having a Policy with the DNR is Good for caches on state land, then it should also be Good to have a Policy with the management of every other public property. Right? All the arguments for a DNR Policy would apply to those as well it would seem to me. Why would the managers of County and City Parks across the state feel any different about the lands they manage. Shouldn’t we proactively seek a Policy from them as well? In fact, we have more to loose from being banded from like Milwaukee County Parks & City Parks than we do from State Land, since there are a lot more caches on County & City land than on State Land.
The City of Madison did infact ban geocaches because of a few issues they had with it. Some in the WGA worked with the Cityof Madison to have that decision reversed. Now to place a cache in a Madison park you submit the cache information to one of the WGA members for them to Approve it for the City.
When we were meeting with the DNR, they mentioned that they were getting asked by local cities and parks departments about how they were handling geocaching.
I would expect to see some local parks departments adopting the DNR policy.
Way better than just saying “NO” to geocaches.
Whoa, I’m not saying that it’s good to have policies in general.
Faced with the talk of a ban on geocaching on state lands, the WGA contacted the DNR. They were very concerned and wanted a “permit” system. After years of talks, they came out with a policy and a “notification form”, NOT A PERMIT.
I would prefer blanket permission and no notification, but since the DNR wanted this info, I think we came out pretty good. This was their request, not ours. As a result, we get to continue geocaching in most instances.
I’d prefer not to have special rules for all municipalities.
So we should expect in the not too distant future, a form to fill out and send it to land managers for every public land in order to place a cache? Hard enough finding out who the few managers are for State land. Can’t imagine how difficult it will be to find who the land manager is for every piece of public land……..
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