Geocaching in WI cemeteries.. revisited

[-cheeto-]

To quote a much older thread on these forums and a past WGA board member (long before I started geocaching…) that was in reference to a possible “ban on cemetery caches”:

Be respectful when visiting cemetary caches.
Do not pose for pictures in the cemetary.
Perhap we shouldn’t post any cemetary photos in our cache logs.
Don’t hunt cemetary caches after dark.
Cache owners should delete logs of geocachers which describe inappropriate behavior in the cemetary, including caching after dark.
Don’t hunt if there are mourners present in the area.
No disrespectful cache names for cemetary caches, or names which joke or play on fears of the dead.

This stuff all seem like common sense to me. Most should go without saying, but it appears there is a need to mention it.

Many posted agreement to this opinion… 3 years later and for the most part I think many would still agree. What about those who are new and have not read this? What are your thoughts on this list?

I am not trying to single out cache owners or point fingers, merely to ask others if they still think these are all valid “rules to cache by” pertaining to geocaching in cemeteries or whether the times have changed??

The reasons behind bringing this up again are
1. I’ve seen cache names over time that certainly are bordering on disrespectful.
2. We are now seeing a rash of new caches actually including pictures of headstones, crypts, etc. on the cache pages and many requiring pictures in log entries to log the cache.

I am not trying to start a debate on whether cemetery caches are “good”. I think that topic has been discussed enough. What I would like to see are other’s opinions on whether the above opinions are still valid and if not, why not?

I am neutral. I do think these are some great points. Someday, I want to be buried in a cemetery (much to my wife’s disapproval) and I could care less if my headstone is used in games, featured in pictures, etc. However, not all of society feels this way….

-cheeto-

[cheezehead]

I myself am not into cemetery caches. We are starting to see more and more up this way. There is one in Spooner were you HAVE to step on a grave to retrieve the cache from the tree. I chose not to. Now there is some history to be learn. It’s just not my choice to look for them much.

I was just talking to a teacher today and she and another teacher, who both cache, are going to set up some sort of cache for one of their classes. (The cemetery is across from the school) They are doing this because of the proximity. There is no other “public” property with in walking distance of the school.

Having a class of 7th graders tromping through a cemetery just sounds like a bad idea in my opinion.

[Thraxman]

I don’t understand why posting cemetery photos would be considered bad form. Everything in a cemetery, including headstones and crypts, were designed and placed to be seen. Walk through a cemetery and look at some of the beautiful and ornate stonework. It is clear the monuments were not meant to be ignored and forgotten, and certainly not avoided. Pictures serve to preserve the beauty of the monuments as well as spread forgotten memories of those they were placed for. There is nothing inherently disrespectful about graveyard photos. They draw attention. They say “Hey, this is interesting or unusual” or perhaps remind us of some history and the person behind that history–history which otherwise slips closer to the realm of the forgotten each day.

Posing for pictures in cemeteries: Clearly, one COULD pose in a disrespectful manner, but assuming someone just wants to be in a photo with something or someone in the graveyard, there is nothing wrong with this.

Hunting caches when someone is visiting a a nearby grave is probably not the most polite thing to do. I bet some mourners would certainly prefer privacy, while others might be perfectly fine with the activity. But we should play it cautious and assume privacy is desired. No cache is so important that we need to risk causing distress.

As for hunting caches in cemeteries after dark, I assume most cemeteries to be “closed” when the sun sets. This may not be true, it is just the assumption I operate under. Frankly, if a cemetery IS open 24 hours, I don’t understand why it would be wrong to be there after dark. It is probably the time you would be LEAST likely to disturb someone who is truly mourning. And so what if the earth is turned so that the continents on the opposite side from us are getting the sunlight?

The Big Picture view that I take is simple. If, say, 150 years from now, some people get in the habit of playing games near my grave, I’m fine with that. Completely. In fact, I’d be happy to know that a century or so after I am dead that a group of strangers will, for some unknown reason, use my gravestone as a table to play cards on. In fact, I’ve toyed with the idea of having some sort of puzzle engraved on my stone. Something to entertain those interested enough to look.

[gotta run]

On the Left Side of the Road...

[LDove]

People/families place headstones to mark where their loved ones are buried and to show everyone that they existed. They are meant to be seen and read. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with looking at these (that is what they are intended for or else someone would have just buried them in an unmarked grave right?) Outside of being there when a funeral is going on, I can’t see how walking through a graveyard even if you are walking on a grave is disrespectful. I visit my family members graves all the time and you have to walk on them to see the stone and place a floral or wreath. People who do geneology also study stones, nobody seems to mind that. No disrespect intended, but I don’t think the residents will mind. If they could, they would probably smile at a group of kids walking by on a beautiful fall day don’t ya think?…. 😀

[jenhen1]

I love cemetery caches, but I guess I’m a little guilty of being a bit uncomfortable when I see pictures posted of anonymous headstones on a cache page. If the stone is someone you know or it’s a family member, it’s different.

The grave plot and stone are owned by someone and considered private property, but of course there’s no real enforced law prohibiting someone from photographing private property. Happens all the time, and they are meant to be seen. But, if I were to run across a web page where anonymous people were posting pictures of say, my car or house, and writing goofy posts about it, I wouldn’t feel threatened or angry, but maybe a bit weirded out by it. A bit uncomfortable. If I had a vote, I’d restrict pictures to stones of people you know, but that’s just MHO.

[Decrepit]

I see no problem with cemetary caches as long as they are away from graves and the cachers show a little bit of respect. There are two caches in the cemetary where my mom is buried and I don’t have a problem with that. One of the caches is about 100 feet from her grave. What really irritates me is when I go to visit the grave and a car or van pulls up, people go running out of the vehicle racing to the cache laughing and joking around, sign the log and then go running back. HELLO?!?!?!? Do you not see that there are people here visiting graves? All I ask is that if you cache in a cemetary, please show a little respect and come back when there aren’t people visiting loved ones or at least don’t go racing around like maniacs and show some self control.

Ok… I’ll get off my soap box now.

[marc_54140]

What do Geocachers, Geneaologists, and Family Members have in common:

1. They visit cemeteries.

2. They take pictures, collect info.

3. They celebrate the lives and memories.

[gotta run]

But what they don’t have uncommon is that unfortunately only geocachers go whooping through the cemetery.

I haven’t seen this behavior first hand, but I have seen logs, paticularly on FTFs, that make me shake my head. I think that is one key benefit of the WSQ? caches, in that they eliminate a whole contingency of players that are rushing from one cache to the next and don’t take the time to even look around.

(Yes, we did blast through finding the large majority of these caches in one day, but Saxeville is a LONG drive away and we needed to make the most of it…even with gas at the $3 mark…)

On the Left Side of the Road...

[Astro_D]

I for one LOVE cemeteries! I guess cause I was dragged around them since I was little (my mom is the family geneologist) finding markers, taking pictures and wondering who these people were and what kind of life they led.

What have I learned from all those years ago? That life is to be celebrated, history is to be learned and the dead should not be forgotten -even if they are not remotely related. To this day, I can get lost in time wandering around looking at the different markers, the metal flag holders, and such. Which is why I love Marc’s new series. It opens one’s eyes to look beyond the everyday, to wonder who, what and how.

I think as long as common sense prevails there is no reason not to have these types of caches.

[benny7210]

@AstroD-Team wrote:

I for one LOVE cemeteries! I guess cause I was dragged around them since I was little (my mom is the family geneologist) finding markers, taking pictures and wondering who these people were and what kind of life they led.

What have I learned from all those years ago? That life is to be celebrated, history is to be learned and the dead should not be forgotten -even if they are not remotely related. To this day, I can get lost in time wandering around looking at the different markers, the metal flag holders, and such. Which is why I love Marc’s new series. It opens one’s eyes to look beyond the everyday, to wonder who, what and how.

I think as long as common sense prevails there is no reason not to have these types of caches.

I couldn’t agree more, with the way AstroD stated their feelings about cemetery caches. The key word is “Respect” when entering a cemeterys.

[K0rpl]

You hit it 100% Kat! Couldn’t agree with you more.

[Trekkin and Birdin]

Lots of interesting thoughts here, and I can see both sides of the discussion. I am one who does have photos on my listings and hadn’t thought about that aspect of such listings. I agree, I’d be thrilled to have people there having fun (respectfully) and exploring the past, but maybe not everyone would feel that way.

Here’s another point of discussion. We’ve talked with these particular cache owners, and they’re rethinking some of their hides, too. There are a few cemetery caches in the area that are very evil hides, like 4.5-5 difficulty. We told them we gave one of those a few tries, but really felt uncomfortable spending so long poking around near the dearly departed nuns from the nearby convent. In fact, Trekkin’ is planning to redo one of ours that isn’t quite so tough, but has had people returning to finally find it.

If a “tough” difficulty is desired, ask people to study information from stones and solve some puzzle that way. IMO, if a cache takes you to a cemetery, it should get you to visit an interesting aspect, allow you to make the find away from the plots in a quick fashion, and move on. Spending hours combing the trees or grass or something to find an evil micro isn’t right.

[Sagasu]

I, too, agree with the sentiments expressed on the most necessary element of visiting cemeteries, whether as a geocacher or otherwise, and that is the need for proper respect and appropriate conduct. My wife and I were frequent cemtery visitors long before geocaching, both while traveling and at the cemeteries our ancestors were laid to rest in. We have shared many moments of reflection during these visits.

The same can be said of our visits, mostly mine, to cemeteries that have geocaches. I remember clearly the grave of a couple near a well in a Calumet County cemetery where I visited to note a birth year and found that the woman buried there died the same year as my mother, and that her husband was born the same year as my father. The drive to the next cache that day, over a year ago, was filled with reflection over that poignant opportunity to remember my parents once again on that beautiful fall day.

We have placed some cemetery caches, with the approval of family, that ask others to say hello to Bampa Bill (my wife’s grandfather) when they visit his grave, or to stop and see Anna, her great-grandmother, who no one else had visted besides us for many years. We are heart-warmed at the thought of new visitors briefly stopping, and perhaps in some cases, taking the time to think of more than just their names and the dates of their birth and death.

As long as people remember where they are and give the utmost respect to others who are there for the more important reason, to remember their loved ones or ancestors, there shouldn’t be an issue with strangers visiting or admiring a grave site. There is much to learn and reflect upon while doing so.

[-cheeto-]

Some excellent replies!! The point of my post was to get everyone thinking and talking about the subject and revisit something that was said in the past. As I stated, I was not stating my viewpoint on the subject.

Again excellent posts everyone!!

It seems that it still remains a subject of respect and for the most part geocachers are a very respectful bunch when it comes to their surroundings and how they interact with those surroundings. Of course you always know what they say about those bad apples…

I know I said I wasn’t going to debate cemetery caches but since many have mentioned it I will chime in on that as well.

My main point to share would be to remember that not everyone thinks cemeteries are playgrounds and most visitors are there for a much different reason than you are. Not everyone agrees with placing geocaches in cemeteries so perhaps “trying to place one in every cemetery in a county” doesn’t necessarily do the sport much justice.

The “trend” of requiring pictures and posting pictures was primarily what this post was about and based on responses so far, most think this is an acceptable practice.

Gotta love a great polite online discussion.
😀 😀

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