Help in understanding

[TyeDyeSkyGuy]

My son recently put together a cache called KFC The HotWheels Cache. The cache was archived before it was published because it was considered a commercial cache.

This makes sense to me. I changed my sons cache and removed all reference to HotWheels. I’m sure it will now get published.

Now, what I’d like to know, is why there are 18 other caches out there with HotWheels in the title, and many references to HotWheels trading in all of them. Why is TDSKids any different?

And while I’m on this subject, why is it that as a premium member I’m subjected to a Garmin, Amazon or whomevers advertisement every time I open a cache page. Is that not commercial?

I’m waiting for Groundspeak Appeals to get back to me on this one, and I’ll post their reply here when I get it.

[zuma]

@tyedyeskyguy wrote:

My son recently put together a cache called KFC The HotWheels Cache. The cache was archived before it was published because it was considered a commercial cache.

This makes sense to me. I changed my sons cache and removed all reference to HotWheels. I’m sure it will now get published.

Now, what I’d like to know, is why there are 18 other caches out there with HotWheels in the title, and many references to HotWheels trading in all of them. Why is TDSKids any different?

And while I’m on this subject, why is it that as a premium member I’m subjected to a Garmin, Amazon or whomevers advertisement every time I open a cache page. Is that not commercial?

I’m waiting for Groundspeak Appeals to get back to me on this one, and I’ll post their reply here when I get it.

Hi T,

There are even more Hot Wheel caches than that, as I know I have found one in Wisconsin, that was not on that list.

Anyway, I dont think our WI reviewers are out to get you, or applying a higher standard to you than anyone else. I too have had many caches archived as soon as I submit them, and I consider both reviewers friends. It is always a bummer when this happens, but I try to put my caches in a nice enough spot that I dont mind revisiting the site to pick up the container. (I had to pick up one this morning that was just barely in a SNA.)

I think this happens mostly because they have a better grasp of the placement rules than I do, due to working with it so much, their better maps, and the information that Groundspeak shares with them that we do not have.

And as far as past practice goes, one of the rules does say something to the effect, that existing allowed caches are not considered as being precedent setting.

Hope this helps. (I also find it helps to curse for a few minutes when they archive one of my new caches.) 🙂

zuma

[cheezehead]

It would help IF everybody could use or see those same maps. So let me get this straight, you can put hotwheels in a cache you but you can’t call it a hot wheels cache. You can use a Match box as a cache but can’t call it a Matchbox cache. And now the letters KFC is being used but has nothing to do with chicken. So you can put out a travel bug inn or hotel/motel but in order to do that you have to but a travel bug from Groundspeak. But that’s not a commercial cache?

😯 😯 😯 So just like ALL the Wayside and Roadside caches. ALL Caches with the reference to Hotwheels and Matchbox cars should be achieved.

I wait to hear the explanation on this one. How in the world can Hotwheels be considered a commercial cache? You might as well say that you can no longer put little toy jeeps in a cache. Or maybe can’t even say or use Jeep cuz that dang well is all about commercial.

Ya know, it’s gonna come a time when there will be just too many stupid rules and it’s no longer going to make this game fun anymore.

Hot Wheels Mania by Speedfrk and Just4me (GC1ANN4) Here is a New Cache that still says new. There are 3, count them 3 page of caches with the Hotwheels in the name!!!!

Ya, I may just be a little Miffed about this!

[PCFrog]

@cheezehead wrote:

Hot Wheels Mania by Speedfrk and Just4me (GC1ANN4) Here is a New Cache that still says new.

I love the background graphic. 🙄

[Trekkin and Birdin]

Good grief, when you click on a HotWheels link in the cache listing, it takes you to the HotWheels website!

I’m sure it’s unintentionally commercial. I just had to rework a cache submission because I mentioned names of local eateries. Not to promote them, just as banter in the listing. I do hope your son’s cache can be published. I know we’ve seen caches with those names in them, too.

[cheezehead]

So any caches that reference the names Clue, Monopoly, Risk should be achieved too right?? And any cache in a park should also be achieved cuz you have to PAY to get into the park right? That be should be considered a commercial cache too cuz you have to pay to get in.

Any cache that reference pizza should also no be allowed and there is only 110 listed on GC.com. Any meet and greet that are at a bar, coffee shop, pizza shop or other restaurant should also not be allowed as you just may want to buy pop or a coffee or something.

[kbraband]

My 2 cents: Some reviewers do a better job of staying current with Groundspeak’s wishes and edicts than other reviewers do.

[gotta run]

I think we have to remember that reviewers are humans and are applying standards that have substantial room for interpretation. We’ve been on the receiving end of several “no go” decisions where we could easily point to a half dozen other caches that are similar, but that’s just the way it goes. You fix it and move forward.

With that said…the “commercial cache” restriction is very unevenly applied. A friend of ours had a cache declined–outright–because it was a puzzle where the *answer* to the question was “Barbie.” Good grief! We’ve had to revise our description of a cache because we mentioned that “there’s an ice cream stand nearby” (no, we don’t own the stand).

However, GC will pimp various products, INCLUDING “whereigo” caches that require a GC purchase, and of course as mentioned TBs have to be bought in order to be logged.

So it’s a bit of, “we (gc) make the rules, so we don’t need to follow them.”

On the Left Side of the Road...

[Team Deejay]

Actually, with regard to commercial caches, that is the one standard we don’t have the ability to adjust based on circumstances. If you want to place a cache promoting a business, product or other commercial enterprise, you need permission from Groundspeak. I have no way of knowing how they determine which commercial caches are acceptable and which are not, but we do NOT archive caches when they come in with commercial content. We always DISABLE them and instruct the owner to get permission so that we can complete the review. In some cases, like the “ice cream store” example given, we tell the person that “if you just strike that one sentence” it can be published now, but in reality, we aren’t even supposed to do that. The mandate is to send the person to Groundspeak to get permission without providing any guidance.

And understand that each cache must stand on its own with regard to the guidelines. If you are offended by the commercial aspects of the cache you found in Kentucky (and I do agree it shouldn’t have been published unless they obtained permission, which they might have done), please send your complaints either to the reviewer publishing the cache or to [email protected].

[TyeDyeSkyGuy]

@zuma wrote:

Anyway, I dont think our WI reviewers are out to get you,

zuma

For the record, I don’t think the reviewers are out to get me. They’re doing what they are supposed to be doing. My gripe is with Groundspeak. And, it’s not really a gripe. I’m just looking for clarification.

@Team Deejay wrote:

I have no way of knowing how they determine which commercial caches are acceptable and which are not, but we do NOT archive caches when they come in with commercial content. We always DISABLE them and instruct the owner to get permission so that we can complete the review.

Mine was and still is archived. Link

[greyhounder]

Yeah –your HotWheels cache was archived. I actually spoke with one of the big wigs at Groundspeak about the exact procedure that I needed to follow for your cache. He directly told me to archive your cache, cite the commerical guideline and have you send an email to appeals. I was just following orders.

I know — archiving seems so permanent. But I wasn’t doing it as a crabby, nasty thing. Just doing what I was told to do.

When a business or something commercial like that is mentioned briefly in a cache page, I usually disable and ask for changes to be made. Your particular cache has a few extra bells and whistles to it — and frankly I really liked it and didn’t want you to make any changes — hence my direction to groundspeak for a (cross your fingers) exception.

Bec

[cheezehead]

@greyhounder wrote:

Yeah –your HotWheels cache was archived. I actually spoke with one of the big wigs at Groundspeak about the exact procedure that I needed to follow for your cache. He directly told me to archive your cache, cite the commerical guideline and have you send an email to appeals. I was just following orders.

I know — archiving seems so permanent. But I wasn’t doing it as a crabby, nasty thing. Just doing what I was told to do.

When a business or something commercial like that is mentioned briefly in a cache page, I usually disable and ask for changes to be made. Your particular cache has a few extra bells and whistles to it — and frankly I really liked it and didn’t want you to make any changes — hence my direction to groundspeak for a (cross your fingers) exception.

Bec

OK, but my question is what makes it commercial?? Just to the name Hot Wheels? Hotwheels is like using the word Kleenex or Xerox. Down south someone might ask you if you want a coke. To them Coke in general means pop or soda pop.

[Team Deejay]

FYI, the cache (before Jay edited it) had the name of a product in the title (including the ®) , the Hot Wheels logo on the cache description, and a link to the Mattel Hot Wheels site. The key is that the cache cannot be appear to promote any business without preapproval from the home office. It would be ok to say “This cache is placed to exchange die cast cars, like Hot Wheels, Matchbox, Johnny Lightning or other similar toy cars.” But you can’t say “Hot Wheels are the greatest!” or “K-Mart has a great deal on Hot Wheels, so stop by there before you visit the cache”.

We understand the confusion because there are so many cache out there which don’t meet this guideline, and I expect that less than 5% of them were approved by Groundspeak. For future reference, here is a short list of stuff you need to get preapproval for.

• Company or product names or slogans in the cache title
• Use of corporate logos and trademarks
• Advertising, promoting or recommending businesses (yes, including ice cream stands)
• Links to commercial websites
• Requiring use of a commercial website to solve a puzzle
• Requiring a finder to enter a business or interact with employees/owners of a business to find the cache

Remember that you CAN place caches that involve any or all of these, as long as you get preapproval from Groundspeak.

[rogheff]

….or list it as a non-Groundspeak cache and avoid all this silliness.

Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

[gotta run]

@rogheff wrote:

….or list it as a non-Groundspeak cache and avoid all this silliness.

Since the WGA site is only quick-linked to GC…and since all the help, info, and other stuff here relates to GC…does it really pay to keep pimping other sites out there that have nothing to do with GC?

I could hide a box in the woods and staple a note to a tree and call it a cache, but no one would find it that way either.

On the Left Side of the Road...

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