Logging Temps at WGA run events

[Lostby7]

Would you as a board member like the option to have temporary caches logged on the event page brought back at WGA events or would you rather the current policy of disallowing this practice be continued?

[labrat_wr]

My thought on this topic is quite simple.
If the cache is not published on http://www.geocaching.com, it should not be logged as a find.
The perception that multiple attended logs on an event makes to the general geocaching population appears to be a negative one as mentioned numerous times in other discussion threads here and on the GC forums.
There have been several caches published that “allow” a cacher to log temporaries as a way to circumvent the “rules”. Ultimately it is the event “owners” choice to allow or disallow temporary logs. The WGA BOD decided that they would disallow multiple attended logs for the purpose of logging the temporary caches for the official WGA sponsored events and I would back that decision.

Until such time as Groundspeak developes a catagory for temporaries, whether they count as finds or, like benchmarks, do not count toward a cachers total finds, I will support the decision to not allow temporary cache “finds”.

on a side note, I don’t remember ever signing a temporary cache log at an event, most often it was a stamper that I stamped on a card, in effect, these were not caches as defined by GC standards

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

Disclaimer : Always answering to a higher power.

[-cheeto-]

Thanks for the question Lostby7

For those that may not know the history, the WGA as a group voted on a referendum regarding this topic. The BOD sought member input on this decision. This topic spawned several forum threads spanning many pages. In the end, all members voted as follows:

Should geocachers be allowed to make multiple “Attended” logs on geocaching.com to record temporary cache finds at WGA events?

40 (32%) – Yes. The WGA should continue to allow multiple logs for temp cache finds.

83 (67%) – No. The WGA should no longer allow multiple logs for temp cache finds.

1 (1%) – No vote

If the WGA no longer allowed multiple logs, would you still attend WGA events?

105 (85%) – Yes. I would attend regardless of whether multiple logs are allowed or not.

13 (10%) – No. It’s very important to me to be able to log the temp caches. If I can’t log them, I won’t attend.

6 (5%) – No vote.

I don’t believe I’ve ever really spoken up much on this topic. I will repeat what I have mentioned in the past and elaborate just a bit.

Geocaching.com has not (and probably will not) prevent this systematically. They leave the system open for all to play the game as they see fit. So it’s up to the cache owner (for all cache types) to decide whether they will allow multiple found it (or attended) logs. For WGA events, the “cache owner” is the WGA. All of us! As a group we all decided in this referendum vote how the group should handle the online logging of the Event. I stand by that group decision.

I think the temp caches at WGA events is a great group tradition and very worthwhile activity. Having both hidden and found temp caches at the High Cliff Camp-out, I can tell you that it is just as (if not more) rewarding to find a WGA event temp cache as it is to find a fully qualified published geocache. It’s unfortunate (there’s that word again) that we cannot all get “credit” for finding these caches. I would be a major proponent of official recognition of these finds either on geocaching.com (perhaps as a log type and a separated count on your profile) or on our WGA website somewhere (like the Lonely Cache Game module).

I also think that we should always encourage finding of the temp caches with prizes awarded at the event.

With WGA event temp caches, we get to see member creativity that’s not always possible on a permanent published cache. The temp caches were (hands down) my family’s favorite part of the camp-out event. It’s a very well-organized event experience (with the stampers and all) and I would hate to see it go away because it doesn’t increase our ‘official’ geocaching.com find count.

[Team Black-Cat]

First, my short answer so it doesn’t get lost in all the words. No, I would not like to see the current WGA policy of not allowing multiple attended logs on WGA events changed. While this topic may need to be revisited occasionally, I don’t think the atmosphere has changed much in the past year.

When I first saw the “Log your temp caches here” type caches, I thought that this was cheating. But, the more I thought about it, the more it seems like a good idea. Who are the temp loggers cheating? Certainly not me. GC.com allows multiple finds and the guidelines don’t disallow them either. Anyone who wants to log temps can do so, and the WGA doesn’t get a bloody nose.

Placing, finding and removing temp caches for WGA events is a tradition. Being outside the purview of GC.com allows for a lot of latitude. Some of the most creative caches I’ve seen were temps. DB’s mailbox comes to mind… A cache like that would not survive as a permanent cache. I’m sure the tradition will continue for a long time.

Giving “credit” for finding temps such as was done at the last WGA picnic cost the WGA nothing. Those cachers who found the temps only had slightly better odds in the raffle drawing. I think this format should be used at future WGA events.

[Barry Butrymowicz]

Great Question Lostboy7,

And thanks cheeto for posting the results from the referendum

My answer on temp caches is a definite NO, the referendum that we voted on should stay as is.

I also think that it is up to each individual event host if they allow this practice, but how can you “attend” something multiple times???

For events that are not sponsored by the WGA if they are using the WGA logo on their page, then temps at their event should not be logged. It should not matter if the event is “sponsored” by the WGA or not. It should be like using any other logo, the use of it should come with some rules.

I also do not agree with the practice of multiple logging on cache pages to “hide” your logs for temporary hides, but this is an entirely different matter that GC.com would have to change.

A long answer to a simple question

[K0rpl]

As was previously stated, Yes, this was brought up to the general membership for a vote, and the membership voted to not allow logging of temp caches on the WGA Sponsored event pages. There are caches out there, that allow temps to be logged, so that workaround has been in place for quite some time.

If the cache is not published on http://www.geocaching.com, I see no reason to log it multiple times unless the cache owner allows it, or encourages it.

My thoughts on this was, and still is no.

[Team Deejay]

This is turning into a broken record thread, but I must agree with the earlier posters. The membership has spoken on this, and I don’t see any reason to override their opinion.

[Averith]

When I first started going to events I have to admit that I logged the temp caches with multiple attends. Now I won’t say if this is right or wrong, but for me after giving it much thought I decided for me it wasn’t the right thing to do. I even went so far as going back and deleting all my multiple attend logs.

I agree with the rest of my fellow candidates on this issue, the current WGA policy of not allowing multiple attend logs for temp caches should stand as is.

[-cheeto-]

I don’t see these ‘negative words’ being used in Lostby7’s original question. However, I will add a bit more to my response.

Again, it’s up to the cache owner to allow or not allow multiple found it logs and attended logs on their cache page. For WGA events, the cache owner is the WGA. The WGA has spoken that logging an attended log more than once is not permitted and this is clearly indicated on the event pages. Pretty black and white I think.

Marc, I can only assume you are asking about logging temps in general and whether I am for or against.

If the cache owner allows multiple logs and it’s in the spirit of what the owner intended, I will log a cache more than once. I have not done so for events but given certain circumstances, I might. I don’t view this as “cheating”.

My find count is my own business and yours is your own business. When you’ve found thousands (I haven’t yet but thousands sounds better than A thousand), what difference does it make if you log an event a few extra times or a cache a few extra times if the owner’s intentions are clear that this is allowed and perhaps even encouraged? Until Groundspeak blocks this, like you said marc it’s certainly not “cheating”.

Again, I would like to see an officially sanctioned method of logging event temp caches so that owners can post these as waypoints and event attendees can all see who found which temps and cachers can see their own overall find count including event temp caches. Perhaps if we lead the way by doing this on our own website for our events, Groundspeak will notice and implement something on their site.

[labrat_wr]

Would you as a board member like the option to have temporary caches logged on the event page brought back at WGA events or would you rather the current policy of disallowing this practice be continued?

Just noting that the original question was made in regards to those events sponsored by the WGA.

GC does not prohibit the practice.

this is true, yet GC does not have a streamlined way to log such caches except to utilize the “attended” logs.
Also, as mentioned, the WGA referendum vote chose to not allow multiple attended logs on WGA sponsored events. What others do with their own events is up to the event cache owner.

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

So, are temporary caches caches? something the cacher must decide

Let us keep the discussion regarding these temporary caches on track regarding the stand that the WGA has made through the membership.

Disclaimer : Always answering to a higher power.

[Team Black-Cat]

Marc, the only time the word “cheating” came up was in my original response. As I stated, that was my previous thought, not my current thinking. The word “wrong” only came up in Averith’s response when he said “I won’t say if this is right or wrong”.

These words were not used in the original question by LB7 so I’m a little confused by your whole post.

[thepharmgirl]

Q: As a board member, would you be willing to overturn the current rule and vote to allow logging of temporary caches on WGA event pages?

A: No. Not without a re-vote of the WGA general membership. On such a devastatingly polarized topic (yes, devastatingly!), I have to respect the majority vote, regardless of my own personal feelings. Personally, I don’t log temps, but I don’t care if other people do, and it doesn’t really bother me if people continue to log them on a “pseudo” site that allows it. In my humble opinion, life is too short to worry about what other people are logging or not logging.

[TyeDyeSkyGuy]

@Lostby7 wrote:

Would you as a board member like the option to have temporary caches logged on the event page brought back at WGA events or would you rather the current policy of disallowing this practice be continued?

🙂 Oh no, not again 🙂

[Lostby7]

@TyeDyeSkyGuy wrote:

@Lostby7 wrote:

Would you as a board member like the option to have temporary caches logged on the event page brought back at WGA events or would you rather the current policy of disallowing this practice be continued?

🙂 Oh no, not again 🙂

This is an important question as it ultimately determines how the WGA is viewed by the geocaching community at large. My apologies for having to ask it as I know it is a charged subject. My apologies also for posting any comment here as this is supposed to be for candidate discussion alone.

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