Milwaukee County Parks

[Buy_The_Tie]

Just a friendly reminder…..

Personal attacks will not be tolerated in these forums. Please take it to e-mail or private messages if you want to duke it out on a personal level.

[Ms. WISearcher]

Am I the only one that is tired of all of the policies out there. I “get it”, but it just seems that with all of the policies that pretty soon there is going to be a need for a policy to deal with all of the policies.

In all seriousness, a policy is not necessarily a bad thing. It was the only way we could open up a city (Madison), but it seems to be the way more and more areas are going. It really will be hard to keep track of all of the diffreent requirements and policies out there.

Good luck approvers…

[Team Deejay]

While the MCP policy seems to already be set to go, I’m wondering if we should be taking a more proactive stance with ALL the parks departments in the state. It seems that we would be able, to provide the various parks departments with a “recommended” policy for Geocaching which we could live with. I could see the Milwaukee county bureaucrats coming up with some unworkable policy because we haven’t gotten involved. (Crossing my fingers that this doesn’t happen.) On the other hand, the DNR policy (where we were closely involved) has proven to be very workable, and I, for one, appreciate the structure available when seeking permission to place a cache.

Here is my thinking: For each of the 6 regions of the state, we could put together a team of people, comprised of at least one person for each county, to communicate with the various parks departments regarding geocaching. We could start by simply contacting the agencies and offering to provide information on Geocaching at one of their board meetings. Part of the program could be to provide some recommended policies to those departments who wish to implement them. At the same time, we could put together contact lists for each parks department, so that area hiders would be more likely to seek the necessary permission.

This is bigger than it sounds. In Racine County, for example, we have Racine County Parks, Racine City Parks, Wind Point Park, Caledonia Conservancy, Caledonia town parks, River Bend Nature Center, Sturtevant Parks, Mount Pleasant Parks, Burlington Parks, Waterford Public Works and Rochester Public Works (I think the parks in Union Grove and Wind Lake are County Parks.) Milwaukee County will be even worse. But we have lots of people willing to volunteer, we just need someone to step up and organize the effort. I believe we would need authority from the board to represent ourselves as the WGA. Are there any board members willing to get this started? I’ll raise my hand right now to join the SE WI team.

I believe we are going to get “regulated” regardless of what we do. We will be much better off if we get involved in developing the rules, rather than letting the bureaucrats do it for us.

[AuntieNae]

Perhaps a place to start would be right within our established state organization for Parks & Recreation …

Wisconsin Park & Recreation Association. The headquarters is right in downtown Greendale. Within WPRA, the state is divided into 4 regions. Each region has a group that meets on a regular basis.

Our state conference will be this coming November in the Wisconsin Dells.

AuntieNae
Renee

[AuntieNae]

Just an FYI,

SE Wisconsin (Region 4) is represented by SEPRC, South East Park Recreation Council.

NE Wisconsin (Region 2) is represented by NEWPRO, North-Eastern Wisconsin Park & Recreation Organization

SW Wisconsin (Region 3) is represented by PARR3, Parks & Recreation Region 3

SW Wisconsin (Region 1) is represented by PARPO, Park & Recreation Professionals.

[The Tapps]

😀 😀 A Big Applause for AuntieNae!! This is what I was trying to say on my thread. Why not have a thread or place for all Wisconsin cachers to go and find out who to contact and what are the guidelines that they have. It can be done and I had read posts of great leadership skills and organization skills. So lets get it together.

The Tapps

[Jay Mills]

Contrary to what I said in a previous post, I suppose I could be convinced to get involved in this if I am desired for such a task. I love geocaching and just want to have some clear guidelines that I am operating within and to advance the sport. I am very outspoken so I don’t know if I would help or hurt the cause, be that as it may. Anyway, maybe we can hold up the DNR policy as an example of a successful policy. My concern is that regulations may be enacted that will cost geocachers money to get permits to place caches and be required to buy something like a license sticker that would have to be attached to the container that identifies the owner with personal information when all that info is already available on gc.com.

[StarWarsGuy]

I am confused about use of parks. A city park is set up for recreation. They don’t need to know when I am playing catch with my son. They don’t need to know when I am using a Public Tennis court. They don’t need to know when I am play frisbee.

The activity we generate brings attention to people that are not from our area. This is a place they should stop. Maybe have a picninc. Ejoy the park.

It seems that if all public parks come to the decision that Geocaching is not an acceptabel activeity for their parks, we could loose alot of territory for the game.

Are all city parks to be contacted in every placement? In some smaller commuinitys this could close the door. If they don’t know it wouldn’t hurt. Keep all containers marked so that if a question arrises they may inquire. Untill I see the first “No Geocaching in this area” sign, I will continue to us my local park for this fun outdoor activity.

The sad thing about the original inquiry is that now it has closed all Milwaukee county parks until futher notice. No new caches for a while. All should honor this or it may make future negotiaions difficult.

Private land there is no question that permission is needed.

Just thinking out loud

StarWarsGuy

[PCFrog]

I would fully agree with you if this was the age before 9/11. Now, with every municipality thinking they are primary target for a bomb and the average Joe thinking that everyone is out there to blow someone up, the risk of placing a cache and it being mistaken is unfortunately high. I sure don’t want to become the target of a township for a bomb scare because I placed a harmless cache in a public park. The main difference between playing catch in the park and geocaching is that you’re not hiding your football for others. My direct point is I think your right, but you have to be willing to stand up and take the heat if it ever comes down for lack of permission/notification in a public park.

Side note:
Geez look an electronic sign with LED that that light up displaying an image. CITY enters panic mode and then reaps 2 million due to its overreaction. Hope a cache does not get mistaken there anytime soon.

[StarWarsGuy]

I have seen some containers that are questionable in the make up. The look of an electroninc device is a bad Idea. placement under a bridge of near a post office isn’t wise.

Lable each container properly and insert a set of rules inside. I have had some containers found in my local park by kids. They didnt have geocaching name. They proceeded to sign the log with their own name and put it back. Neat little thing to find when you are not looking for it. The is still the mind of a child.

A box in the bush…..its a bomb.

Unfortunatley that is the mind of an adult.

StarWarsGuy

[Gusty Winds]

Milwaukee County Code is clear on permissibility of geocaching:
===============================================
SUBCHAPTER I

47.03. Games and amusements prohibited except in designated areas; permits for exclusive use.
(1) Prohibited except in designated areas. No person shall engage in any sport, game, race or amusement in any park or parkway except upon such portions thereof as may be designated for that purpose, and then only under such rules and regulations as may be established by the park commission.
===============================================

If a Parks representative has stated that they are working on a geocaching policy, I would take that as a positive sign.

Consequences of violations of the code are well defined as well

===============================================
47.30. Police powers in enforcement of this chapter.
Except as to section 47.141 of the Code, the provisions of which shall be enforced by the sheriff or by peace officers of the City of Milwaukee, any peace officer of the county, or any of its municipal subdivisions, may without a warrant arrest any offender whom he/she may detect in the violation of any of the provisions of this chapter, and take the person so arrested forthwith before a magistrate having competent jurisdiction, and he/she shall have at all times the right to enter the premises of any building, structure or enclosures in any park or parkway, including such grounds, buildings, structures or enclosures which may be leased or set aside for private or exclusive use of any individual or group of individuals, for the purpose of arresting violators hereof, and may use all necessary means to attain that end.

[Team Deejay]

The sad thing about the original inquiry is that now it has closed all Milwaukee county parks until futher notice. No new caches for a while. All should honor this or it may make future negotiaions difficult.

First of all, what is apparently happening in Milwaukee County is that they were already working on a policy when Jim called, and didn’t want to give him the new rules until they were approved. Nobody ever said the parks were closed, and it is certainly not true that his inquiry was the cause of their new policy.

That said, when you place a geocache, you have to check the box on the submission form indicating that you read and agree to the Guidelines for Placing a Cache. To quote from the guidelines (hoping they don’t sue me or something), “By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.” This is not our rule, or a parks department rule; this a geocaching.com rule. If you don’t want to follow it (or any of the other guidelines), you should not be placing caches. I am guessing that a lot of people just assume that, since there is already a cache in a particular park, it is ok to place more caches there. Sorry, but this just isn’t the case. You have to get permission from the property owner or manager.

My original point was that we need to get involved with the government before it gets involved with us. If you spend any time at all working with government agencies, you will understand the wisdom of this point. In general, bureaucracies are lazy, and allow themselves to be pushed in whatever direction is easiest. (This is why there are so many lobbyists.) If we approach an agency with “Here is what we are doing and here is what we think you might want to do to keep track of what is happening”, 99% of the time, they will accept it as suggested, modify it slightly or even just say it is unnecessary to do anything (a popular choice among bureaucracies). If WE do nothing, sooner or later, some other group will approach them with some reason for banning or restricting geocaching, and they will follow their suggestion instead. This could be the result of a bomb scare, an angry neighbor, or even another outdoor activity group who doesn’t like sharing their territory. Basically, we know that many of the various parks and recreation agencies are aware of geocaching and are considering guidelines for their lands. Why would we not want to be proactive and get involved with their policy making? If we wait until they have already made policy, it will be too late.

[Uncle_Fun]

Spoke to one of the regional managers today and Sue Black is presenting the geocaching guidelines to the board next week. The website will be updated as soon as possible. She didn’t reveal any information, but I got a feeling we may not like what we get. Just a feeling that I got from the conversation. Lets hope it isn’t.
Uncle_Fun

[lagrac]

‘It’s Easier to Get Forgiveness than Permission’

That’s the only caching policy that I follow. 😀
j/k

All this ‘policy’ talk sounds too much like my job. I think the only policy that should be in effect is the use of common sense.

I got the whole policy talking to when I put a cache in one of our State Forests. There were dimensional requirements. I pointed out to the reviewer that there were no ‘dimensional requirements’ for the illegal Hmong tree stands out there. Swallowed my pride finally and complied.

Resistance is Futile!

[Jay Mills]

@Uncle_Fun wrote:

Spoke to one of the regional managers today and Sue Black is presenting the geocaching guidelines to the board next week. The website will be updated as soon as possible. She didn’t reveal any information, but I got a feeling we may not like what we get. Just a feeling that I got from the conversation. Lets hope it isn’t.
Uncle_Fun

Do you know if these meetings are conducted in the public arena or held begind closed doors? I realize I should have asked when I got the call from parks manager about the meeting but I didn’t. Be that as it may. I would maybe be interested in attending such a meeting if it is possible.

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