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I have just been contacted by my local DNR superintendent that another cacher has requested copies of the forms that I’ve submitted to the DNR. The superintendent feels that this is a waste of his time when he has multiple lands to manage as well as fighting a proposed sand mine next to a beautiful DNR land. He is the only full time DNR person in my county. He’s had to talk with the state headquarters and their legal team in regard to this issue. And, he’ll have to sort through the forms to find mine, copy them and send them out. And he had to notify me also. The DNR superintendent is unhappy to say the least.
I’m angry also, for several reasons. The cacher could have looked on Geocaching.com and/or contacted me directly for cache information. And, I have several devilish puzzles as well as other caches on the DNR lands in my county. As you all know, the coordinates for each cache are on the form. I’ll be mad if this cacher claims those puzzle caches as finds. But what really makes me angy is that I’ve done what I can to show geocachers in a positive light. I’m working with this superintendent and I even include maps with my cache locations marked when I send him new DNR forms.
The bottom line is – the DNR Superintendent is unhappy that he has to waste his time sending cache information to an individual. It’s not what the DNR notification form is intented for.
I’d like to hear what you think and any suggestions you might have. Thanks for your time.
Only people that should be asking him for copy or verification I believe are the approvers and other state officials that DNR feels that need them.
With the freedom of information act, the DNR might have its hands tied.
This is an interesting side effect of the DNR requiring us to file paperwork huh….I’m guessing they didn’t think of that when they decided to further regulate the parks we use.
It is a creative way to solve a puzzle cache though…..
maybe that is the plan then make it a waste of their time
wait then they will start charging to make it worthwhile.
Hi MamaKat,
While I am desperate to solve the last of the trifecta of difficult puzzles on DNR land, I think anyone who would stoop that low jus for a lil smiley is a low down skunk. (Polite language for this family friendly forum.)
Anyway, one option would be to require those who post a “find” show their work, like in freshman algebra. If they cant explain how they found the coordinates, you could delete their log.
And, yes, I agree with you, you have done a great job in working with the DNR in this area. Please dont get discouraged by one bad actor, and just keep on keeping on, and doing all the great things you are doing.
zuma
I agree with pcfrog. There is no reason why any cachers other than approvers should be bothering the DNR about these forms. If it is truly someone just wanting the answers to your puzzles, that is just wrong, wrong, wrong! I wonder if there is some other possible reason we are not considering? Possibly someone is looking to place a cache and wants to know what places to avoid? I dunno…..
Regardless, if the DNR is legally compelled to do this, is there anything about the process we can change to prevent this problem in the future?
I would guess that this cannot be avoided. The Freedom of Information act requires that official documents be available to the public.
Personally, I wouldn’t worry about it. If someone wants to cheat, they will cheat. The DNR knew about the FoA act before they made the requirements, and they surely fulfill these requests all the time.
What bothers me about this is the information being given out. That form includes real name, home address, phone numbers, and email address for the geocacher. This type of information is not obtainable through geocaching.com unless the geocacher has made it available.
I hope this DNR officer imposed a fee to cover the cost of locating the form and copying it.
It would be nice to have an attorney involved here…
the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) is a federal act and only applies to federal documents, although I am sure there are similar laws on the state level.
Section 552 of the FOIA allows specific exemptions that may apply here. one is the exemption of “Trade Secrets:” and this might be interpreted to include some of the data we include on DNR forms. Another exemption is to prevent the “unwaranted invasion of privacy”
Under federal law, it would be concievable that the DNR would be within their rights to return a form to the requestor with a majority of the data “blacked-out.”
Any attorneys out there?
In Wisconsin it is the Wisconsin Open Records Law (Wis Stat. 19.31-19.39).
Uh, the problem is that DNR (or at least one of their employees) doesn’t like going through the trouble of making a copy. I seriously doubt that they would be interested in editing the content released for our benefit. And since there no commerce involved in placing or finding a cache, no way would any of this be considered a trade secret.
That said, I can’t imagine anyone going this route to solve a puzzle cache. The rest of the information on the form is pretty much available out there if you know where to look. Sorry, but the days of keeping your phone number or address completely private are gone. If you have a phone, receive mail at your home, own real estate, vote, or other interact with the government, people can find your address and phone number. The email address might be a little harder to come by (if you don’t use AOL, Yahoo, or MSN, all of these databases have been hacked), but you could just leave that off of the form.
I guess the answer is that if you are worried about your information being available to the public, don’t place your cache on DNR (or Dane County Park) land.
I realize my address and phone number are available to anyone who cares to look up my name. However, geocachers real names are not available unless they give it out in some public way.
I know my name is out there, attached with my geoname, because it was freely available when I was a Board member. However, not all geocachers have given this information out.
As to not placing caches where I need to give out that information, I certainly wouldn’t if I hadn’t already made those details public.
Well, I hope this is an isolated incident that will eventually blow over. Aside from the privacy issue, my main concern is the attitude of the DNR. The WGA has worked very hard to keep them happy. If more incidents like this cause them to start feeling like having geocaches is more trouble than it is worth – we would find ourselves dealing with some serious issues down the road.
I’m just sayin’….
@LightningBugs Mum wrote:
…If more incidents like this cause them to start feeling like having geocaches is more trouble than it is worth – we would find ourselves dealing with some serious issues down the road.
I’m just sayin’….
Nah there are plenty of virgin guard rails yet…..and all those light pole covers..that alone could keep us going until the year 2010.
Ya know, I didn’t think of it before, but the REQUEST of an open record is also subject to the open records law. Get the name of the guy, post it here, someone will surely know their geocaching handle, and then we can shame the nitwit into submission. Alternatively, I could call my cousins Vinny and Nico from Brooklyn and have them fly over to Eau Claire to pay the guy a friendly visit….
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