Not good

[decdogg]

I would like to add my thanks. As long as we keep the lines of discussion open changes are possible. Just keep talking to the DNR. I have found they can be very helpful. We need to show that we are doing far more good for the environment than damage. Once we can show them we are on the same side they will be more willing to bend our way a bit. Patience is the key. Good luck.

[Cache_boppin_BunnyFuFu]

After spending the day reviewing the information the DNR has on their website, I have made this observation and conclusion:

It states “No Geocaching in SNA’s” BUT an Earthcache is NOT Geocaching. It is “the gathering of geological or histrorical information from are area already visited by the general public!!”

Am I splitting hairs???? Darn tootin’ I am!! and YES you will see this posted in 2 separate posts!

[Miata]

I will admit that the virtuals ban are over kill. 🙄

Pretty soon WalMart won’t be letting us place park and grabs! 😈

[PCFrog]

@Miata wrote:

Pretty soon WalMart won’t be letting us place park and grabs! 😈

I can’t wait for the day. 🙂

[marc_54140]

As if Miata really likes shirt lifters!

[kbraband]

Thanks for the interesting thread and courteous discussion. I, too, think that the DNR’s ban of geocaching in SNA was not the best decision that the DNR has ever made.

However, by no means was the WGA Board being shortsighted when it agreed to the present DNR geocaching policy. Exactly the opposite. The Board spent a long time over a period of years working with the DNR, listening to opinions of members, forming a committee, drafting a proposed policy for them, and meeting with and emailing DNR officials. All this was done in the best interests of Wisconsin geocachers for the long-term future. Not many other state or regional organizations achieved this kind of success with a state DNR. Remember what we got: no ban and no permits required for geocaching on most DNR-managed land. That’s big.

Keep in mind that the ban on geocaching in SNAs is not actually discriminating against us. We still have access to SNAs. You can still post coordinates here in the forums if you choose to list some really cool areas of SNAs to visit, where to park, etc. Nothing prohibits us from doing that. True, you can’t actually log a “smiley” for finding those sites, but that’s not what it’s about anyway. (Oops, that’s a whole ‘nother discussion.)

Having said that, I’ll add that if there is sufficient groundswell interest from members, maybe we should request that our WGA board once again get it in gear and ask for a meeting with the DNR officials to rethink the arrangement. Why not? It can’t hurt to ask.

[I M WU]

I think if you talk to the DNR and the council responsible for SNA’s, I would suggest that if caches are again allowed in those areas that we could educate the public on invasive species, actually be on the lookout when we go in search of an earthcache, virtual or regular cache. Create some type of statement to that effect in the cache description. I know the DNR has invasive species cards. Maybe these could be left in caches for the public to view, to work hand in hand with the DNR on this issue. Also I like the idea of promoting an Event or CIIO, Cache In Invasives Out. The DNR could inform us of the area and we could try to get as many geocachers there to help eradicate the invasives. Anything to help educate the public and assist the DNR with the invasive problem and get caches back to these locations.

[Sean Connery]

While it is true that geocachers can be tracked online I do not believe that is the only reason we are being picked on. As a long time hunter, I know that the DNR tracks my hunting activity very carefully. When I kill a deer is registered by them and marked in a small area of the state as to where it was shot. When I kill a migratory bird I must notify the DNR of the kill and where it took place. The state regulates the types of weapons and ammunition I can use when hunting. The state receives extra income beyond sales tax from every box of ammo I buy. I pay about $100 per year for hunting licenses.

In short, money talks and the other walks. We as geocachers do not enrich the DNR coffers beyond possibly buying an annual parking sticker. Even snowmobilers, boaters and others pay fees to the DNR which basically pay their salaries, etc. Yes, we all pay taxes but they don’t come close to funding the DNR budget the way all the extra fees do.

[cheezehead]

Living up north as I do. Sawyer County does not have any SNA that I am aware of. But we do have the Namekagon River, which is part of the National Scenic River Way(NSRW), where chaches are not allowed. But the land is open to hunting and other things. Heck, A NPS Park Ranger will give you a ticket on the spot if they think you are caching. There was a cache at a favorite spot of mine that I knew was placed wrong and was recently archived. There where a few others that were also archived but did some leg work and got them active because they where not on NPS property. There are many, many spots that would be great for caches but you can’t. I think that the SNA’s & NSRW goes hand in hand. If can do one, you should be able to do both. Just a note that the Namekagon and the St. Croix Rivers are both part of the NSRW.

I guess that there is a fine line to tight rope. What’s to stop the DNR from saying ALL State land is close to geo-caching 😯 ?

[Team Deejay]

Actually, there are 3 SNAs in Sawyer County: Flambeau River Hardwood Forest (about 5 miles W of Phillips, within Flambeau River State Forest), Lake of the Pines Conifer-Hardwoods (18 miles W of Phillips in the Flambeau River State Forest), and Kissick Alkaline Bog Lake (about 2.5 miles W of Hayward, in Kissick Swamp Wildlife Area). Combined, its around 700 acres of land, although the Kissick Lake looks like all water and marsh. You might check to see if any of your caches happened into one of these areas. As mentioned above, the DNR does a really poor job on marking borders. You basically have to take a topo map and try to guess exactly where someone drew a line on a map.

[Ray]

@Team Deejay wrote:

… the DNR does a really poor job on marking borders. …

This can make it tough if you are trying to plan ahead, but when you go to discuss your proposed placement with the land manager, he/she should be able to give you a better definition of the boundary.

[elfdoctors]

@Trudy & the beast wrote:

… but when you go to discuss your proposed placement with the land manager, he/she should be able to give you a better definition of the boundary.

… if he is willing to talk to you. 🙁 I’ve been placing a series of caches in Crex Meadows (Wisconsin’s largest wildlife preserve) which has two SNAs and a refuge area within just this property (over 30,000 acres). The local land manager has not given me any help at all. After trying to work with him for seven weeks I just went ahead and placed some of the caches. I notified him of the placement (with the appropriate form submitted) as well as the fact that I was waiting until after deer season to place the remainder. I have not heard from him for another 3 weeks. He made some veiled threat about geocaches already existing in the Fish Lake Wildlife Area (Wisconsin’s 9th largest preserve – also in Grantsburg 🙂 ) but he has not said anything about any of my caches.

The only way I was able to determine the rough boundaries of the SNAs was with a plat book – at least the section numbers are listed on the website to give you some idea. The boundaries of the refuge are very clear as this has been posted with many signs.

[Team Deejay]

My experience is similar in the wildlife areas. While the DNR seems really interested in what happens in the Parks/Rec Areas, the Wildlife areas don’t seem to be a priority for them.

[cheezehead]

@Team Deejay wrote:

Actually, there are 3 SNAs in Sawyer County: Flambeau River Hardwood Forest (about 5 miles W of Phillips, within Flambeau River State Forest), Lake of the Pines Conifer-Hardwoods (18 miles W of Phillips in the Flambeau River State Forest), and Kissick Alkaline Bog Lake (about 2.5 miles W of Hayward, in Kissick Swamp Wildlife Area). Combined, its around 700 acres of land, although the Kissick Lake looks like all water and marsh. You might check to see if any of your caches happened into one of these areas. As mentioned above, the DNR does a really poor job on marking borders. You basically have to take a topo map and try to guess exactly where someone drew a line on a map.

I guess I knew about the bog and the are no caches near it. As for the others, they are on the south eastern part of the county and so I’m not sure if there are caches near the other 2 SNA cuz I haven’t hit any of the cahce down there yet.

The 2 caches that I have out on State land I had no problem with the land manager. He actualy told me of a few locations on state land that would be good for caches!

[Author]

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