One power trail after another????

[CodeJunkie]

@jenhen1 wrote:

I believe if that trend continues, the trail associations may start to have a real problem with geocaching on those trails.

I seem to also recall a requirement about “permission” being granted before placing a cache. This would seem to infer that either the caches are being placed without permission of the trail “owner”, or the the “owner” has agreed. I think this is an important part of the sport to remember as we place caches.

I’ve been spending a lot of time recently getting permission by reviewing concepts, maps, ownership, etc. with various authorities and it’s amazing to see how different they are to work with. Some people welcome the geocachers and others would prefer nothing to do with them. For the ones that welcome caching it’s extremely fun to work with them, because they’ve actually encouraged some spots to help boost awareness. And those that are more challenging are generally pushing back because of the “impact” of geocaching.

[gotta run]

I believe the existence of power trails is a growing trend, as evidenced by the emergence of trails from New Brunswick to New Mexico. In keeping with the topic of this thread, I don’t know if there’s some point at which people say “enough is enough,” but as long as this game keeps track of “scores” and people are motivated to set the new “world record,” I don’t see any reason it would diminish.

As has been said, correctly, many times, there is something in this game for everyone. As a cache finder you can simply choose not to hunt caches in these trails, but I do think power trails are changing the character of the game, which is either good or bad depending on what type of caching you like to do.

You can probably guess which side of the fence I stand on here. I would only add that geocaching continues to bill itself as a “high tech treasure hunting game,” with the marketing of the site, and the images chosen for it, highlighting beautiful spots, excited children opening large cache containers, and so on. “Come find 1,000 filmstrip canisters spaced 528 feet apart on the shoulder of the road” doesn’t carry the same appeal, but that’s just one man’s opinion.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[cheezehead]

@gotta run wrote:

I believe the existence of power trails is a growing trend, as evidenced by the emergence of trails from New Brunswick to New Mexico. In keeping with the topic of this thread, I don’t know if there’s some point at which people say “enough is enough,” but as long as this game keeps track of “scores” and people are motivated to set the new “world record,” I don’t see any reason it would diminish.

As has been said, correctly, many times, there is something in this game for everyone. As a cache finder you can simply choose not to hunt caches in these trails, but I do think power trails are changing the character of the game, which is either good or bad depending on what type of caching you like to do.

You can probably guess which side of the fence I stand on here. I would only add that geocaching continues to bill itself as a “high tech treasure hunting game,” with the marketing of the site, and the images chosen for it, highlighting beautiful spots, excited children opening large cache containers, and so on. “Come find 1,000 filmstrip canisters spaced 528 feet apart on the shoulder of the road” doesn’t carry the same appeal, but that’s just one man’s opinion.

DITTIO!
And there is no way to stop them.
IMHO, a power trail is a hike to one cache that is more than 2 or more miles round trip. That’s a power trail.
Hmmmmmmm…..now there’s an idea for a new series…… 😈 😈 😉

[The Crippler]

I for one have been enjoying these power trails and have been doing many of them on bicycle with my family. To say there is little to no value is surprising, especially coming from board members. If you all take the time to actually read most of the cache pages, as I do, you learn a great deal of information about the particular state, national park, movie or whatever.

The America the Beautiful series has become an inspiration for several areas of this country I have not yet visited and am planning to do so, probably caching along the way.

The way we have been doing the bike trails is to ride all out to the end of our planned segment, usually between 10-20 miles and then cache back to our car. What this does is allow for an incedible workout at first and a slow burndown on the way back. We also frequent some of the small establishments we come across along the way usually for lunch, a coffee or other cold beverage. So far these trails have given me a far better workout than hiking for 5 miles in the Kettle Moraine. I am sure most of you will admit that kind of workout we can all probably use.

With the opinions that some of you have posted maybe you could advocate for a Cache Quality Review process outside of the standard Geocaching review, that way they could all pass your vision of quality and value…

[-cheeto-]

@The Crippler wrote:

To say there is little to no value is surprising, especially coming from board members. If you all take the time to actually read most of the cache pages, as I do, you learn a great deal of information about the particular state, national park, movie or whatever.

It’s great that you are getting some education from these series cache writeups and some exercise.

Thanks for misquoting me. I never said there was little to no value. You did.

I was commenting solely on the nature of the caches hidden every .1 along a trail. I have not done any of the caches in question and was responding to to someone else who mentions that not every one is a notable placement.

My vision on quality is that everyone get out of caching what they want. If finding a cache every .1 along a bike trail is your thing then that’s cool.

Eventually there will be no more room for these new trail series caches and hopefully cache owners who maintain them well for years to come.

[The Crippler]

Guess I should have used the word “imply” instead of “say”. Interesting how a nerve was struck though…

[Barry Butrymowicz]

Even the northwoods have power trails:

TC54915 has hidden some great caches along the Ed’s Lake trail out of Wabeno, WI Look up this cache at the start GC1X5D0 There are 15 there.

Also has placed many along the NST Trail: a 32 mile long section of ATV, hiking , biking, equestrian trail in Forest County. So Far there are 36 along the trail,

Went out today in the rain and did 8 of the 10 new ones about 12.5 miles on my bike was great, except for the rain,

Caches are not hidden every .1 but either on ATV or bike or walking, its a nice area for caching. Caches start here at the south GC1X15R and end here in the north GC2B6KP

About a month ago Val and I did the Glacial Drummond and part of the Bugline. With Val being in a wheelchair parttime, power trails like these are great areas for us to cache together. The long walks in the woods are out. (unless there is a forest road or snowmobile trail that we can get the truck down) and close to the cache. but that takes some of what the cache owner wanted you to enjoy in the first place. Either on the ATV or walking with her in the wheelchair, it makes caching more of a sport we can enjoy together, keep hiding the “power trails”

I think there should be a link or area here on the WGA website where these are listed as power trails are a lot more fun then getting all the 1/1 caches in Walmart parking lots.

Barry

[-cheeto-]

@The Crippler wrote:

Guess I should have used the word “imply” instead of “say”. Interesting how a nerve was struck though…

No nerve struck, I just wanted to clarify that I was not implying low quality.

Thanks for the contrasting viewpoints.

[cheezehead]

Again, it comes down to “How you want to play the game”. Quality over quanity argumment again. Who’s to say who is right. With out people putting caches out there would be no new ones to find. I have yet seen anyone force another cacher to go find a cache. Everyone makes a choice.

There is a a series North of me in the middle of no where with 6 or so cache on it pointing out diffrent kinds of trees. I DNF 3 of them cuz I could not find the caches the 1st time. Went back and found them the second time. Diffrent types of hides and very clever. Could that series be considered a power trail? Sure, I guess. But it was a fun time

[Team Deejay]

I think the “power trails” we have here are ok, as at least they are on a trail where people have to get out and motivate under their own power. Contrast this with some of the ones you find out west, where they place caches every 0.1 miles along a road or parking lot in identical fashion, where the idea is simply to have a numbers run. (In one case, the owners used power transmission towers without permission, encouraging people to drive down the private access roads. The Department of Homeland Security was not amused.)

What I think some people are trying to say is that “in the old days”, if you were traveling in an area, looking for a geocache was a good way to get yourself to something interesting in the area. By the time I started, this was no longer true, but you could (in our area) concentrate on the WGA COTM caches and recommended caches to get to some pretty nice places. Now that that list is dominated with “series caches”, which in some cases are just “normal hides along a trail”, we don’t even have that as an option. It is a little frustrating to lose that “tour guide” functionality of geocaching, but this is a result of how the game has changed over the last few years. I think you will find this as the primary reason why many of the “old-timers” have stopped playing. It just wasn’t fun for them to have to filter out all the parking lots, guardrails, etc. to find the hidden gems they were looking for.

[Trekkin and Birdin]

Some really great points and concerns raised in this thread all the way around. We do these trails because, as Dave says, you do have to get yourself moving under your own power and it’s a nice change from in the car, out of the car, in the car.

Barry’s comment about the accessibility issue is a great observation as well. We enjoyed the Bugline a bit more ourselves, not quite so busy. Did you get to the part where you could see into the “lakes” in the quarry at Lannon? That was pretty amazing in and of itself.

I also share jenhen’s concern with respect to those more remote trails and the paths and such that quickly get created. If that affects how those groups, like the IAT folks, perceive what we do, we could lose out on some amazing areas for cache placements. When we go somewhere like that, we aren’t really expecting a bunch of caches anyway. Heck, when we did St. Peter’s Dome, which I think was about a 2.5 mile hike one way, we were beyond thrilled to get a Lil Otter and another along the way! Nort’ woods power trail!

My intent wasn’t to try and pit caching styles against each other, I see these trails as a nice way for people to get out of the car and enjoy some activity, although I do agree with PCFrog that every 500 feet can be almost as tiring as just riding. We have learned to do every other one if we’re doing a ride to one end and then back, which helps. As Jim says, kind of hard to pass them up if they’re right there!

We are putting out an old timers’ challenge, which of course won’t help the old timers, cause they probably already have all the possible caches. But it will require folks to have found about half of the currently active number of caches from 2001. If they have some from before that have since been archived, they count, but the number is based on what’s out there now. I’ve been building the bookmark for this, looking at “old timers” profiles to gather up the archived ones from 2000 and 2001. Just have to motivate my butt to hide the darn thing! We thought it would be a fun way to use a special ammo can we won at a 10 years event.

[gotta run]

@Team Deejay wrote:

I think you will find this as the primary reason why many of the “old-timers” have stopped playing. It just wasn’t fun for them to have to filter out all the parking lots, guardrails, etc. to find the hidden gems they were looking for.

Well said. We’re certainly not old timers but we drive past many new caches in our daily travels that we have no interest in stopping to look for because we know just what they are. There’s nothing wrong with those caches, we’ve just lost interest in that type as a general rule. To each their own.

What I wonder–worry?–is whether “high density” caching will benefit the game in the long run–if it has staying power. Is there a point at which driving from cache to cache to cache gets old? I think we’ve all seen the logs–“Out on a numbers run today and I don’t really remember this cache but I’m sure it was great, TFTC!” Is there a point where people look at their little stats bar and wonder, “Why am I doing this again?”

Again, to each their own and thus far the game has flavors for all types of players. It will just be interesting to look back in a few years to see where the evolution of the game goes and what its impact is.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[sandlanders]

@gotta run wrote:

It will just be interesting to look back in a few years to see where the evolution of the game goes and what its impact is.

Things need to evolve to stay fresh. Sometimes it’s for the better, sometimes not. There is no way this game could have stayed all large containers in the woods after a long hike to a scenic spot. We are lucky to still have that option available, though, but that is not for getting high numbers.

Lower terrains and easier accesses are good for smaller kids and persons with disabilities, and for those of us whose days of rock scrambles and log leaping are in the past. But like dessert, too much of it does not meet our “nutritional” needs, the food for the soul.

We can take all ways of playing this game we all love, as long as cachers are respectful and ethical. You can tolerate a wide range of relatives at Thanksgiving dinner because you’re all related. Some you’ll see throughout the year, others not. But you all like turkey and pie.

[LDove]

My newest favorite cache type? The ones on the bike trails. I find this a fun and relaxing way to spend a day and get good exercise too. I LOVE ’em and I am even trying to plan this upcoming weekend around finding one that will keep us biking and caching for a while.

[amita17]

@sandlanders wrote:

You can tolerate a wide range of relatives at Thanksgiving dinner because you’re all related. Some you’ll see throughout the year, others not. But you all like turkey and pie.

I love this quote! 😆 And it applies to more than geocachers. Thanks for the smile!

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