This topic contains 101 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by 
cheezehead 15 years, 6 months ago.
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I voted “This is not ok.”, but I think the trend here in the thread is very accurate with a variety of opinions. I think the most important things to remember are to be considerate and respectful of others.
I don’t log caches that I don’t find and I don’t log puzzles that I didn’t solve (of course I’ve never been at a puzzle final for one that I didn’t solve, so maybe I’m biased).
I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve worked many puzzles solo, have had the help of the CO on many (you know who you are from my many emails), and have also worked cooperatively with other cachers. I’ve also helped other cachers with solving puzzles. I don’t feel it’s right to log puzzles you haven’t found. In my opinion, you always have the option to log a note stating “Found with group xyz.” in place of a find when you haven’t completed all the requirements (i.e. the puzzle).
The same holds true for other types of caches. Having the coordinates for the final of a multi and skipping the rest defeats the intent. Standing at the base of a tree for an Evil Monkey and claiming “Found” defeats the intent. Not rehiding the cache (i.e. leaving it exposed) defeats the purpose. Obviously I state these to show that it’s more than just puzzles that can be “shortcut”.
I think the key thing is that people should try to respect the intention of the cache as best they can. It’s what keeps it enjoyable for everyone. Some of have puzzle solving abilities, some have tree climbing abilities, etc. I know personally how gratifying it is to conquer some of these unique puzzles. I’ve also spent a few hours trying various methods to get up a tree knowing the intent was to do it without a ladder. It was a great accomplishment to complete these as intended.
I also think it’s important to note that these are only my opinions and the way I cache. Other cachers opinions certainly do vary and some may agree with all or some of my opinions. I think the important thing to remember is that we all show each other respect. NOTICE – I didn’t say AGREE, I said RESPECT.
@codejunkie wrote:
I think the key thing is that people should try to respect the intention of the cache as best they can. It’s what keeps it enjoyable for everyone.
This is what we try to do, whether it is a puzzle or a regular cache. If it’s a night cache, try it at night. If it’s a canoe cache, try it with the canoe. If it’s a multi, do all the waypoints. If it’s a puzzle, solve it yourself (or as a collaboration beforehand). If we need help after trying a find or a puzzle on our own, we may ask the cache owner for a nudge or two. Once in a while, if the cache owner has been AWOL for a while, we’ll ask a previous finder where the container is.
I can think of only one time we were caching with others that we didn’t have the solve on a puzzle cache. We were going to sign the log and write a note on the cache page until we had had time to try the puzzle ourselves, but in this case, the cache was a DNF for all, so the point was moot. We have since solved the puzzle, but still haven’t made the find. And it can also be a letdown at times when caching with a group that not everyone can make the find on a container, especially if it’s a unique type of hide, but so far that hasn’t been a problem.
But play like you want without destroying the integrity of the game. If the smiley is what you’re going for, that’s what will make you happy. If it’s conquering a physical challenge, that’s what will make you happy. If it’s the solve on a tricky puzzle, that’s what will make you happy. Geocaching is what makes us all happy.
@codejunkie wrote:
I think the most important things to remember are to be considerate and respectful of others.
I agree.
Just because you think it’s okay to find a puzzle cache by any means necessary (which I voted makes you a cheater cheater pumkpin eater) does not mean that everyone thinks this way including the owner of the cache and others who may have legitimately solved the puzzle.
I sort of agree with some posts and emails I’ve read recently. There are plenty of traditional caches out there. If you don’t want to solve the puzzle, then by all means put it on the ignore list. You don’t have to find all the geocaches on the map. Really. You don’t. It won’t hurt. I promise!
I take pride in solving puzzle caches and enjoy learning from other creative geocachers that place fun, entertaining, and sometimes educational puzzle caches for me to find. I really want to continue to keep enjoying these for years to come and my way of trying to make sure that happens is to solve the puzzle caches I hunt for and make sure I log my experience appropriately. Also, I respect the owners of these caches and their wishes. I don’t rub it in their face that I can find their cache without solving the puzzle.
I would also like to add (a slightly off-topic comment) that a puzzle tour bus of 10+ people is a disrespectful idea. It makes me want to disable all my puzzle caches and not allow logs. I would urge anyone who decides this is a good idea, to respect the owners and others who may have solved the puzzle. Pretty please.
They’re not traditional caches. They are different. Just like an Earth Cache is not a traditional cache. You can’t log an Earth Cache without fulfilling certain requirements. Why is it okay to log a puzzle cache if you did not solve it (or at a bare minimum understand the puzzle and how it’s solved) The difficulty rating of a puzzle cache often includes the puzzle difficulty. They are a different kind of geocache than a traditional.
I don’t think it’s necessarily about “earning” your smiley as much as it is defining the cache type. A puzzle is not a traditional cache. Rinse, lather, repeat.
Please respect the category and those who choose to play the game differently than you do, especially the cache placers who make this past time fun for some of us.
if your caching with someone else how about the method “since i solved the puzzle you find the cache”
that seems to fair right?@smashing ground wrote:
if your caching with someone else how about the method “since i solved the puzzle you find the cache”
that seems to fair right?That’s why I take the grand kids. I solve the puzzle and then I send them up the tree or through the brambles to find the cache.
One clarification on my opinion of the topic. I think that caching teams (couples, families, friends) that cache under the same name are a bit different than multiple teams getting together for “puzzle tours”.
Teams/families should not be discouraged from doing puzzles. Should everyone understand the puzzle, yes. Do they all need to solve it themselves? well that’s just picking nits. I don’t think anyone is being that critical. Even the die hard “must solve it yourself” crew shouldn’t expect that all the time because it just won’t happen that way.
@-cheeto- wrote:
One clarification on my opinion of the topic. I think that caching teams (couples, families, friends) that cache under the same name are a bit different than multiple teams getting together for “puzzle tours”.
Teams/families should not be discouraged from doing puzzles. Should everyone understand the puzzle, yes. Do they all need to solve it themselves? well that’s just picking nits. I don’t think anyone is being that critical. Even the die hard “must solve it yourself” crew shouldn’t expect that all the time because it just won’t happen that way.
That is kinda what I do with OPPS5 (daughter’s family and grand kids). They are regular cachers, but because of the kids school and soccer can barely squeeze caching time in, let alone time to solve puzzles. We do usually discuss what I had to go through to solve a puzzle and I know that they appreciate and enjoy caches that they would otherwise not have the opportunity to hunt. The outings with them are our most fun adventures.
@-cheeto- wrote:
I would also like to add (a slightly off-topic comment) that a puzzle tour bus of 10+ people is a disrespectful idea. It makes me want to disable all my puzzle caches and not allow logs. I would urge anyone who decides this is a good idea, to respect the owners and others who may have solved the puzzle. Pretty please.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. While I can only speculate about the motives behind this particularly-timed tour, without question it is giving the proverbial Middle Finger to cache owners in the Valley who the organizer knows are frustrated by this practice. This goes way beyond horse-trading and the occasional out-caching-with “found it” log. It’s also abundantly clear that nothing I or anyone else can say will cause the organizer or participants to see this point of view.
On the Left Side of the Road...Actually did this two weeks ago in Racine. I had found the first of the two clue caches and was making my way along towards the second while exploring possible hide spots. I came to a tree that looked like a good hiding spot and there was the final under a few stones. It was already getting a little late so I signed the log and went home. I do plan on getting to the other clue cache sometime.
Seems a pretty varied response so far, which I guess goes with my thought on the subject.
I am not the puzzle junkie that some people are. I’ve done a few “doozies” that gave me headaches, but the puzzle was part of the overall experience for me. However, it’s not an experience I want very often. Sometimes I just want to go and grab a bunch of guardrails and cemeteries to break up a day. Sometimes I’m looking for a unique adventure and I don’t care if I only do one that day. It’s about what kind of adventure I’m interested in at the moment. For puzzles, there has to be something special about it FOR ME to spend the headscratching time on it.
Another example of not following the intent: I’ve done plenty of Marc’s cemetery caches where he would like me to post a picture of some example of a headstone I’ve found. I’ve yet to do it. Probably never will. (Not that I’m the only one either.) Why? I DO like spending the time looking around at the other headstones often (which I think is the intent), but I don’t have the patience to collect and post photos just to log the find. That is a part of the experience that doesn’t interest me. Does that make it wrong?
With that said, it’s no skin off my back if people want to “skip” the intent of my caches and group find them. I place puzzle caches for the enjoyment of others, not to prove how devilish or clever I can be. I just want the experience to be fun for people. If ganging up to solve it is fun, then go ahead. If you don’t think it’s going to be fun, don’t do it…and certainly don’t complain to me that it wasn’t fun afterward. That’s like asking someone to pinch you then complaining it hurt.
But…personally, if I spend the time solving someone’s puzzle, you won’t get the answer from me unless you do, too. I believe it is up to the CO to decide whether you have suffered enough for the solution.
Final thoughts: Unless the cache in a once in a lifetime area and I just couldn’t get the solve on my own, I won’t even bother with it. After all, it’s just a container with a piece of paper in it. There will be lots more of those.
Only have time for a short statement here right now, more may follow but,
I would appeal to everyone to at least attempt to solve the puzzle cache before just blindly adding your name to the log sheet. There are a myriad of puzzles with varying difficulty. If the cache owner placed a 3-5 star rating on difficulty due to the puzzle solution, then there is probably some reason and you should owe it to yourself to see if that reason is because the CO just wanted to frustrate the heebiejeebies out of you or is the effort put in going to be worth it in the end. Hey, you just might learn something too. There are a few puzzle cache developers that put alot of work into these caches to make the experience enjoyable either solving the puzzle or at the final location, often it is both.
It may just come down to respect for the efforts of the owner.
as mentioned earlier, if you happen to find yourself in a place you may never get to again and have opportunity to log in on the paper, when you log on-line, think about posting a note and then when you have solved the puzzle, go ahead and edit your log to a smiley. Or IF the cache owner doesn’t give a lick whether or not you solved it, go ahead and log the find. (if you have the final coords, working the puzzle backwards can be easier, and in the end you may get a portion of what the CO wanted you to.)
many of the puzzles out there have a purpose. Teach you something, show you something, tease your mind to keep it nimble, emphasize some idiosyncrasies of the world or languages, take you back to your childhood or some rediculous fad from the 70s,80s.
don’t short yourselves. this is a game, there are no prizes except for the ones you make from your adventures.
Disclaimer : Always answering to a higher power.
Ummmmm ya! Pretty much what he^^^ said.
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