This topic contains 101 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by 
cheezehead 15 years, 6 months ago.
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@gotta run wrote:
Well, there are fewer puzzles for everyone to fret over in the Green Bay area now. Did a bunch of archiving today for various reasons.
DUUUHHHHH!!!!!! There goes 5 puzzles solved / not found. 😥 😥
Oh well – that means I better solve some more for the next trip north.
@codejunkie wrote:
@gotta run wrote:
Well, there are fewer puzzles for everyone to fret over in the Green Bay area now. Did a bunch of archiving today for various reasons.
DUUUHHHHH!!!!!! There goes 5 puzzles solved / not found. 😥 😥
Oh well – that means I better solve some more for the next trip north.
Well at least we know you solved em 😉
@gotta run wrote:
Yet it is OK to hand a bus full of people a spreasheet of puzzle coordinates? Yes, I am making an assumption here, having not gone on a tour, but it is a reasonable assumption based on reading many logs, talking to people, and seeing the posted details for tours. Maybe I am wrong and everyone on that bus will come with some good-faith effort at solving the puzzles.
Who is handing out the spreadsheets? I did not get one!
Yes, you are making an assumption. Perhaps you should come down off that high chair, and come on a Tour, just once. Be surprised what goes on…..
(Actually, we spend a lot of time discussing how to write our ‘Found it” logs. And where to have lunch! 😆 😯 8) 🙄 )
@marc_54140 wrote:
Who is handing out the spreadsheets? I did not get one!
Yes, you are making an assumption. Perhaps you should come down off that high chair, and come on a Tour, just once. Be surprised what goes on…..
(Actually, we spend a lot of time discussing how to write our ‘Found it” logs and where to have lunch 😆 😯 8) 🙄 )
We do spend a lot of time figuring out what and where on the lunch part! 🙂 Probably the best part of “bus tour” caching!
I know some of those lunches I went on were “working lunches” too – everyone bringing print outs of puzzles and ideas and trying to group think possible ideas to solutions.
even sitting around a table “helping” with puzzle caches, I would not feel its right to help with puzzle “a”, “b”, “c” and put no input into puzzle “d” but still log it with the group. This is why we don’t usually cache with a group. Don’t even feel it would be right to sign a log after someone else got the “found it”.
@seldom|seen wrote:
If your perception is that I am a horse’s arse for expecting people to make an effort to solve my puzzles before they go a hunting, so be it. If you, on the other hand, tend to agree that an effort should be made and I have a right to defend my views, that’s good to. If all that comes out of this is a fence-sitter or two giving it a second thought the next time they read, ‘2020 Puzzle Bus Tour, climb abord and clear the valley of pesky ?’s’ then I’ve accomplished something.
No, Alex, I do not preceive you as a horse’s ass. And I am sorry if you think that. I think you are an interesting individual. A wonderful addition to the human stew…….
However, you are as stubborn as a mule, when it comes to how geocaching should work. Well, to each their own view points and opinions.
And sometimes your defense of your views come across more as ‘this is the way you should do it’, and so I must protest.
I would consider meeting you half way, but I’m busy organizing those pesky bus Tours. 8)
@marc_54140 wrote:
Yes, you are making an assumption. Perhaps you should come down off that high chair, and come on a Tour, just once. Be surprised what goes on…..
Can’t find my high chair…or even my high horse. But I did find my rocking horse! Ah, memories….
On the Left Side of the Road...Johnny, you’re really grasping at straws with the FTF cache analogy; that’s the way the CO designed the cache and that’s exactly my point.
Regarding the logs on our owned caches you point out–yeah, I admit I got pretty annoyed about the fact that the change to the ALR rules a while back had people jumping on those two caches to log them as now-traditional caches as fast as they could with TFTC-type logs. We tried to restructure one as a Challenge, but it was just pointless and caused too much confusion for finders so we decided to take it down. Were my logs unnecessarily saracastic? In retrospect, probably. (Then again, who would really ever know unless they’re audting our archived caches?)
If you keep spending time researching my writings, you will undoubteldy find plenty more upset, sarcastic, or angry logs and forum threads and facebook posts and emails and letters to the editor and…well, you get the point. I know I could never run for public office. And since I don’t have time or inclination to audit all your cache logs to mix up a pot of mud of my own, I’ll just quote from this thread:
@gotta run wrote:
I do not claim to be perfect or anywhere near it.
However, my imperfections and inconsistencies do not negate the fact that
@gotta run wrote:
I have a right to continue advocating my point of view
as do you.
Lastly, I already publicly apologized to 3Hawks, so I’m surprised to see you bring it up again, particularly after the many cordial PMs you and I have had on this topic. Oh well. Keep it in your pocket to use against me again, because I’m bound to get worked up about something different sooner or later.
On the Left Side of the Road...@marc_54140 wrote:
Who is handing out the spreadsheets? I did not get one!
Well I know you had one — not sure which puzzles were on it but based on your protective nature when lil cheeto was coerced to (thanks to some other nefarious cachers) and did attempt to nab it I would say you didn’t want the contents of that list posted on the forums or floating around the bus. 😉
It was pretty entertaining to watch you chasing him… 😆
Auditing archived caches? Are you kidding me. I’m solving puzzles. That’s what you want us to do, right? You wouldn’t believe the things you can learn when you’re trying to find out “Where’s Dave?” and “Where’s Dave now?” I get so confused.
And trying to pass off your statements as sarcasm? Now that’s reaching for straws.
Some people are contentious are others pretentious. And some, both.
@Johnny Cache wrote:
You wouldn’t believe the things you can learn when you’re trying to find out “Where’s Dave?” and “Where’s Dave now?”
I just figured out where Dave was then AND now. Of course I can’t find Dave yet, but I know where he was. Does this sound confusing or what?
@codejunkie wrote:
@Johnny Cache wrote:
You wouldn’t believe the things you can learn when you’re trying to find out “Where’s Dave?” and “Where’s Dave now?”
I just figured out where Dave was then AND now. Of course I can’t find Dave yet, but I know where he was. Does this sound confusing or what?
your welcome 😉
Regardless of cache type, and knowing that there’s no hard and fast rules to resolve this issue, I think it boils down to 2 very simple concepts:
Cache Owners: Do your best to design a cache that is interesting and fun for people to find, remembering that it is primarily a family activity. Be clear about your intentions and be willing to give grace at times when those intentions are not met, realizing there are overriding circumstances that keep with the spirit of the game (to find caches and have fun). Also realize that there is a place in the game for the ultra complicated and ultra rugged terrain cache (including puzzles) but everything in moderation. The same could be said of the other extreme, however, it’s clear there is a better place in the sport for the lower end of the spectrum. (To accommodate children (primarily difficulty) and the handicapped (primarily terrain))
Cache Finders: Do your best to find the cache according to the way the hider intended it. Don’t try to take shortcuts to find the cache that they clearly didn’t intend you to take. Hide the cache exactly as found unless it was clearly tampered with by an animal or something. Don’t share secrets about the hide or puzzle solve unless you know personally that the owner does not mind. Collaboration is part of the game and part of the fun but make sure your collaboration is honest and that you could look the owner in the eye in good conscience after logging a find.
I’m grateful for the people who have shown me grace as I’ve done some things that I found out or realized later was bad etiquette (if not just plain stupid). The personal conflicts that type of thing causes are NOT worth the smiley.
I think with the principles of respect in place as stated earlier in the thread, we still leave room for people to have flexibility to play the game according to the aspect that they most enjoy (finding, solving, hunting, socializing, etc) But before we lash out because we feel we’ve been disrespected, it’s better to exercise grace first for the spirit of the game and the community. There will ALWAYS be the lazy person, the guy who destroys GZ like a bull in a china shop, the shortcutter, the number crazed, the… “cheater” (based on each one’s personal definition of that word) but we still have a game. We could let those people ruin the game or move on. I guess it’s up to us to do our best not to be “that guy”.
The best thing about this sport is it’s variety. There are SO many aspects to enjoy (or ignore). Some people really get excited about jeeps, other have no idea what that even is. Some about the planning, others the actual finding, others the stats, or maybe the solving, or hiding, coin collecting, historical and geographical research, spending time outdoors with the family, seeing new places, trading swag, or even just the grass roots of hunting and finding. Each one in this thread has made contributions to a variety of these areas and the game would not be as rich as it is without that diversity.
We have to be careful though that we don’t let the thing that excites us become the defining aspect for those around us. Because we enjoy doing it that way doesn’t mean the next person does and be willing to exercise grace in that area – especially when we realize the aspect we enjoy is to an extreme end of the bell curve. The more extreme we become, the more grace we must be willing to show (because less and less of the population will fall in line with that aspect).
The conflict enters in when people feel slighted or cheated because of the actions of another cacher. My guess is that most of these incidents are usually a misunderstanding and that’s where grace comes in to play. Of course, if we approach the sport with an attitude of mutual respect, it will only become greater with more quality and more fun.
Have I screwed up in many of these areas? You bet! Have I mastered all of them and become everyone’s favorite geocacher – absolutely not! But I share these ideas as principles I will dedicate myself to working on for the sake of the game and everyone else’s fun. And if others want to join me, that’s fantastic. I’ll probably still tick someone off along the way but I will do my best to make that minimal.
I guess if we all followed this practice we wouldn’t have to talk as much about rules and restrictions. Let’s all cut each other some slack and remember what’s important here – each other.
And by all means, if I tick you off, PLEASE TELL ME! Because if I don’t know, I can’t do it better the next time. I would much rather be called to the carpet than have someone hold a grudge and ruin their experience as well.
@Johnny Cache wrote:
Auditing archived caches? Are you kidding me.
Neither of the two archived caches of ours from which you pulled those logs are puzzles to solve. I stand by my assertion but feel free to keep arguing your case if you’d like. Regarding the original topic, I have made my arguments and have nothing more to say on the matter.
Again, I am neither perfect nor perfectly consistent. In fact, there’s been only one person in our history who was perfect and, although his initials were also JC, he does not post to these forums.
On the Left Side of the Road...
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