Puzzle caches improperly labled as a multi

[HeliDood]

I was doing a cache this afternoon, that was labled as a Multi.
However, this “multi” wasn’t really a multi, but a puzzle/ mystery.
I had to go from stage to stage picking up clues from various landmarks. The only cache was at the very end (still haven’t made it there yet, going there tomorrow)

This isn’t the only cache I’ve seen like this, in fact there is another nearby from the same owner.

Now correct me if I’m wrong, but cant this 7 stage “multi”, complete with waypoints for each stage, restrict placement of new caches within the same park because of the 528ft rule?

[Team Black-Cat]

Without knowing which cache you are refering to, I would have to guess that it’s an older cache. If it was placed now, it would certainly be a mystery type.
Since there is no container at any of the additional waypoints, I don’t think they will cause a proximity issue. Since both of our state reviewers are on the forums, I’m sure one of them will correct me if I’m wrong.
DeeJay?

[HeliDood]

@Team Black-Cat wrote:

it’s an older cache. If it was placed now, it would certainly be a mystery type

Would you consider July 2009 “old”?

This is the cache: GC1VHWF

If indeed it would create a proximity issue, thats really unfortunate because each of the stages are spread out over a half mile distance.

[Mister Greenthumb]

I’m not going to try to be an expert on the 528′ part of this. However, on a multi-stage cache that requires the seeker to gather information at each waypoint to determine the final coordinates, the hider has the option to make it a multi or a mystery cache under the hiding guidelines. I have some hidden each way and find that the ones labeled as mystery caches get more activity. Labeling as a mystery cache also tips the cacher off ahead of time to possibly reading the cache page before the hunt.

[Mister Greenthumb]

I would have made that one a mystery cache. I consider anything hidden in the last 2 years a newer cache.

[zoesbrother]

I’ve got a cache up in Menomonie that I wanted to be a puzzle but I had to make it a multi because the final is more than 2 miles from the first part.

[Northern Lightz]

There was another topic on Multi hides and how far away. The way I read it was that if there is no container just cords given from an object already there another cache can be placed by it. If you can find that topic that would help you, it was in General also not too long ago.

Not positive about how it works with the stages and other caches.

With the puzzle and multi icon we have no idea

[gotta run]

@HeliDood wrote:

I was doing a cache this afternoon, that was labled as a Multi.
However, this “multi” wasn’t really a multi, but a puzzle/ mystery.
I had to go from stage to stage picking up clues from various landmarks. The only cache was at the very end (still haven’t made it there yet, going there tomorrow)

This is appropriately published as a multi cache. Multi cache guidelines state:

“Offset caches are a variation on multi-caches. They are listed as a multi-cache when selecting a cache type. They are not found by simply going to some coordinates and finding a cache there. With the offset cache the published coordinates could be of an existing historical monument, plaque, or even a benchmark that you would like to have your cache hunter visit. At this spot, the hunter looks for numbers or information already appearing on the marker or on some part of the marker or site (geocachers never deface public or private property). The geocacher is then able to manipulate these numbers or information using instructions posted on the cache page to continue the hunt.”

In the cache you reference, you go to various points, and “manipulate those numbers.”

@HeliDood wrote:

Now correct me if I’m wrong, but cant this 7 stage “multi”, complete with waypoints for each stage, restrict placement of new caches within the same park because of the 528ft rule?

If there are physical (i.e., owner-placed) waypoints there, it does put the 528 foot rule into effect around each of those waypoints as it relates to other caches. However, if they are only “reference points” (i.e., nothing placed by the owner, such as an existing sign or landmark), it would not.

So in this particular cache, because these are all classified as “Questions to Answer,” there would be no 528 foot restriction on those particular points.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[HeliDood]

@gotta run wrote:

because these are all classified as “Questions to Answer,” there would be no 528 foot restriction on those particular points.

Ok, I think I’ve seen that when submitting a new cache.
There is a drop-down menu where it says “Choose A Waypoint Type”. So then “Questions To Answer” won’t interfere…
Then that answers my question, thanks.

My concern was that one multi-cache could tie up an entire park.
I’m happy to learn that this isnt the case.

[-cheeto-]

So what you do now is place a true multi that takes up the whole park

😈

Just kidding… I’m actually very happy to have learned that stages of a multi that do not have a container do not restrict other caches. I tried to find the other recent post from Deejay on this but I couldn’t either…

I always thought they did too!

[sandlanders]

We did this cache, and it is basically a nice walk along the river, looking at different things and getting some information. There is a physical container for the final, and that you would have to stay 528′ away from. If you do not know where that is and don’t want to risk putting anything near it, I would suggest doing the cache (if you haven’t already) and finding out where the final actually is. I think this one is all doable in the winter. Don’t know how much they keep the riverwalk clear of snow, but the place is quite busy in the nicer weather.

[gotta run]

@HeliDood wrote:

My concern was that one multi-cache could tie up an entire park. I’m happy to learn that this isnt the case.

It still can as cheeto alludes to, it just has to have physical waypoints.

The one notable exception to this being night caches, where fire tacks (mini reflectors) placed by a cache owner are not considered physical waypoints for proximity purposes.

That can be frustrating when you’re trying to place a cache where a multi exists, but it’s just a fact of the game–like trying to account for puzzle finals for proximity (a whole other topic, probably discussed in these forums somewhere 😈 ).

On the Left Side of the Road...

[HeliDood]

@-cheeto- wrote:

So what you do now is place a true multi that takes up the whole park

I suppose that wouldn’t go over to well…

Thats what I was afraid that this cache had done.

Off Topic, but one of the stages to this cache, waypoint “STOP” asked me, how many letters are on the octagonal shaped sign?
I got there, saw the Stop sign and I just shook my head. “Why did I even bother” I said to myself.

[gotta run]

Just a suggestion, but you might want to avoid making criticisms about specific caches in these forums.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[Team Deejay]

OK, definitive answer (at least around here). If you place a cache with more than one stage and all the stages are containers, tags or other objects placed by the owner, and the first stage is at the listed coordinates, that is a multi. If you place a cache where there is only one stage which is not at the listed coordinates where you have to solve some sort of puzzle to determine the real coordinates, that is a mystery cache.

Now, you probably thinking “OK, Captain Obvious, what about where you have a cache where the first stage is at the listed coordinates, but you use some sort of formula to calculate the next stage? And what about caches where you solve a puzzle for the first stage, but then they have more stages which is a more standard multi?” It goes back to the definitions. If your cache has more than one stage and starts at the listed coordinates, you can call it a multi. If it has puzzle elements, including getting info off signs and other stuff, monkey puzzles, or combination locks, you can call it a mystery. It is up to the owner to choose. If the cache does not start at the listed coordinates, it MUST be a mystery. That said, I would strongly recommend that you list your cache as a multi, rather than a mystery, if it starts at the listed coordinates. Why? While there are a small percentage of cachers who filter out multis from their queries, there is a much greater number of people who filter out mysteries. This is especially true among travelers. This means that you will get more finders for an easy multi than an easy mystery. Of course, if your goal is to get people to ignore your cache, maybe a mystery would be preferable. The idea is that either a multi or a mystery cache requires that you look at the cache listing before starting your hunt, so there can be overlap in the classifications.

To add further confusion, letterbox hybrids can be of traditional type, mystery type or multi type (and even wherigo type, although that is more theoretical, I suppose). To be an LBH, the cache has to have a stamp for letterboxing. Other than that, it just has to meet the standards of the other cache types.

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