Puzzle caches: when to archive?

[Mister Greenthumb]

@Ry and Ny wrote:

@Trekkin’ and Birdin’ wrote:

As someone who enjoys puzzle caches, here’s my MO. We don’t have many true puzzles down here.

This to me is the key. My $0.02 pissy rant:

Telling me to look at a plaque and subtract xxx from the year of the event is not a puzzle.

In this day and age of the internet and databases that solve any ROT or substitution cypher is not a puzzle. If you’re not using a Vigenere cipher or higher with a hint at the keyword, it’s not a puzzle.

Telling me to subtract 2 from the number of windows in the nearby landmark is not a puzzle.

I freakin’ LOVE puzzles. Love ’em. I play ARG’s on a regular basis and those revolve around truly mindbending puzzles that take communities to solve over the course of the games.

The examples above are wastes of my time, precisely because they’re not really puzzles. Wastes of time because people are working through a “puzzle” that will be solved every single time not with even the slightest modicum of thought but with gruntwork, simple arithmetic, or, if we don’t even want to put that effort into it, plugging the “cypher” into a standard flash based substitution solver. Then, after the “solve” is done, it’s a waste of my time plugging the child waypoint into my GPS manually. Frankly, if you need to put me near a landmark, mark your final and say “hey, check out the info on the plaque of that site over yonder. There’s some cool info over there.”

So the answer is mixed. For a thoughtful, interesting puzzle, I don’t think there’s a standard or a limit, so long as tghe final is maintained. I’d rather see a tough s|s type of puzzle sit out there for 8 months on the Lonely Cache List and remain active than see yet another plaque waiting for my uber unique subtraction skills to be able plug manual coordinates onto the GPSr sit there for 2 weeks unfound before archiving.

The category is actually Mystery and Puzzle caches. The number substitution caches that you mention are not considered to be puzzles. They are Mystery Caches. You have to remember that geocaching is a family activity and most puzzles are way beyond my three grand-children’s capabilities. They geocache with us often and love finding out about historic facts and substituting numbers to find final coordinates. I have a series of ? Caches that are especially for kids and require things as simple as counting the number of swings on the playground. A few like this in an afternoon of caching make it easier to keep the kids going.

[gotta run]

@Ry and Ny wrote:

@Trekkin’ and Birdin’ wrote:

As someone who enjoys puzzle caches, here’s my MO. We don’t have many true puzzles down here.

This to me is the key. My $0.02 pissy rant:

Telling me to look at a plaque and subtract xxx from the year of the event is not a puzzle.

In this day and age of the Internet and databases that solve any ROT or substitution cypher is not a puzzle. If you’re not using a Vigenere cipher or higher with a hint at the keyword, it’s not a puzzle.

Telling me to subtract 2 from the number of windows in the nearby landmark is not a puzzle.

Well, this is a bit OT, but…why are these not good puzzles? First of all, with the ciphers, yes you can find online decoders (even for Vigenere), but you first have to recognize that it is a substitution cipher, and if you are new to puzzles, you will not. Even though the gc hints use ROT 13, if you use other ROT shifts many will not get the puzzle.

So if nobody puts these out, how will new cachers learn to solve them?

And for “simple” puzzles, sometimes they are meant to be simple. Or meant to be just hard enough to keep the traffic to the cache down. Or meant to ask people to subtract stuff from data on signs to get them to read the signs. Or any number of other reasons that were valid to the placer. At least it took some thought and planning.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[Ray]

Marc’s point was to find a consensus of when to archive a puzzle cache. My belief is that a geocache owner should consider archiving a cache when he feels his interest in maintaining the cache begins to wane. Some of us are going to be caught by placing legacy caches… “covert cache,” “metamorphosis,” “Soldier in the Field,” etc., these should never be retired. If a cache owner should lose interest in such a cache, it should be adopted by another cacher who is willing to maintain it. These need to be shared with future geocachers. There are few of these great geocaches, the majority of the caches we find have been fun, but will get tired and should be archived at some point. Unfortunately, some cache owners have walked away from their responsibility and left their orphans in the woods.

If you place a cache [puzzle caches like any other], maintain it. If you lose interest in it, remove it and archive it.

JMHO ~tb

[Ry and Ny]

Sorry, was in a pissy mood last night, although I do stand by the plaque statement. While I’m not averse to bringing someone to a dedicatin plaque commemorating something the hider finds important, I’d prefer to see a nearby hiding place chosen with a direction to check out the plaque and the monument. Sloughfoot has a number of these that bring you to a commemorative location and let you decide for yourself.

Yes, I know….if you don’t like ’em, just mark ’em off your list. With gas going up (along with the mortgage), I find myself less and less able to make trips out of town to go caching, so now I’m stuck doing some of these and for me, they’re just tedious.

I agree with Trudy & The Beast when it comes to the caches, to a point. I’ve been asked to help maintain a couple and am more than happy to do so because they’re really good quality caches. Heck, one of them is a puzzle cache. 😉

[gotta run]

This really gets back to the attitude/philosophy behind geocaching being all about the numbers. This does relate to the topic, bear with me.

Whenever these questions of archiving come up, it’s couched in the context of sooner or later there’s a need to do something fresh in the area. “We have to drive farther and farther to get caches.” So the mood in the geo-community seems to be that there is an implicit need to cycle caches in and out to give the local community new caches to find. Why? If there was value in putting a cache out to begin with, why not leave it out there “permanently?” Otherwise why put it out in the first place?

The nearest counterpart to geocaching, letterboxing, has boxes you can find that are 100 years old.

Anyway, back firmly on topic, if you’re going to archive a cache, I think it’s a good idea to post a log beforehand giving those who have solved the puzzle fair warning to hurry up and find it.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[TyeDyeSkyGuy]

I guess I consider my puzzle caches to be no different than my, or any ones traditional caches. There is no need to archive them unnecessarily. If there’s nothing wrong with them, leave them until they need to be archived due to damage, muggles or whatever.

I have a few puzzles that get only a couple visits each year, and in most cases those visitors are new to the game, or people that came from afar.

So, I see no need for a standard. Keep your puzzles.

Now, since I am the perpetual fence-sitter, I’ll give you a bit from the other side. If there are folks in your dying to place some caches, but can’t because of some puzzles that are more or less dormant, maybe it’s time to archive a few to give them the space they need.

[marc_54140]

Although I place all my caches with the intent that they remain permanently, something always comes up.

Specifically, with my puzzle caches, I feel there is a time when they should be archived. It might be after a certain number of months, or perhaps when the number of finds diminish beyond a certain number.

Although they are good enough to stay forever, why keep them when the number of cachers seeking them dwindles to such a low number?

So, I’m still looking for some good ideas on how to determine when a puzzle cache has run it’s course.

[gotta run]

@marc_54140 wrote:

Although they are good enough to stay forever, why keep them when the number of cachers seeking them dwindles to such a low number?

So, I’m still looking for some good ideas on how to determine when a puzzle cache has run it’s course.

It sounds like you answered your own question Marc! If your intent is cache activity, when the number dwindles is the answer. Again maybe offering fair warning or a “LTF” (last to find) opportunity is fair.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[cheezehead]

Here is my First REAL Puzzle cache.

I think it’s a first of it’s kind, at least up this way.GC1BBJ7

[marc_54140]

@cheezehead wrote:

Here is my First REAL Puzzle cache.

I think it’s a first of it’s kind, at least up this way.GC1BBJ7

Off Topic!

[cheezehead]

It is but it isn’t. I have had only one find since I put it out. How long should I keep it active? Ya, it only been up for a less than a month or so but when should it be put to bed? The Evil Genius was archived after not being up for a very long time. I curious as to what others think about this topic.

[marc_54140]

@cheezehead wrote:

It is but it isn’t. I have had only one find since I put it out. How long should I keep it active? Ya, it only been up for a less than a month or so but when should it be put to bed? The Evil Genius was archived after not being up for a very long time. I curious as to what others think about this topic.

OK, only those cachers living below HWY 29 can comment here! 😯

[cheezehead]

@marc_54140 wrote:

@cheezehead wrote:

It is but it isn’t. I have had only one find since I put it out. How long should I keep it active? Ya, it only been up for a less than a month or so but when should it be put to bed? The Evil Genius was archived after not being up for a very long time. I curious as to what others think about this topic.

OK, only those cachers living below HWY 29 can comment here! 😯

And why is that? Are you afraid of thous north of Hwy 29? 🙄
I’ll post where I want to post, and if you don’t like …..TUFF ! 😛

[marc_54140]

I can see this topic has run it course, and not likely to attract any more serious input.

Turning it over the the WI Yuppers! 😀

[gotta run]

@marc_54140 wrote:

I can see this topic has run it course, and not likely to attract any more serious input.

Maybe we need a new thread on when to archive an old thread.

On the Left Side of the Road...

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