Reviewer question (?) Needs maintenance vs. Needs archive

[gotta run]

You all know the drill…you attempt a cache, DNF it, keep tabs on it for a while, note nobody is finding it. Or there are problems logged about the cache. In either case, the owner is not picking up the idea from the logs, maybe has gone AWOL, who knows.

So…one option is to drop the owner a note, but if they’re not acting on logs….

Then, there seem to be two logs of escalating seriousness–“needs maintenance,” and “needs archive.”

First, does the “needs maintenance” log alert the reviewers, or not?

Second, “needs archive” is pretty serious and not very friendly from the cache-owners point of view. Ideas/parameters for use?

On the Left Side of the Road...

[-cheeto-]

I’ve never logged either. And I probably never would on a DNF or multiple DNF situation. Does it really need Maintenance or to be Archived if no one can find it? Only the owner knows. Maybe they check on it and it’s fine and choose not to log their check. You never know an owners intentions. I usually don’t even email the owner in these cases. It’s their cache and if they want stacks of dnf’s so be it. So many cachers use the “needs maintenance” log when in fact it probably doesnt even need maintenance. I see this a lot.

Now if the container is busted and the log is soaked, then a “needs maintenance” would be warranted… or it’s infested with ants or earwigs, etc. Yeah they should probably do some cleanup/maintenance. I don’t even log a need maintenance if the log is wet. I just note that in my find log. If they choose to continue to ignore their logs it’s NMP (Not My Problem).

I look at “needs archive” to be used in cases where perhaps you are approached because you are searching on private property so you log your find/dnf noting that it’s on private property and you send the owner a note and there is no response and the owner hasn’t logged in for awhile. Then perhaps, a needs archive would alert the reviewers to a potential maintenance item. That’s how I see “needs Archive” being used. However, trying to contact the owner should be first in the process not later.

-cheeto-

[gotta run]

@-cheeto- wrote:

So many cachers use the “needs maintenance” log when in fact it probably doesn’t even need maintenance. I see this a lot.

Good point and I should clarify. In fact, we’ve had to respond to “needs maintenance” logs in the past because the cacher was adamant the cache wasn’t there, when in fact it was.

I am thinking more along the lines where the DNF logs clearly indicate there is a problem with the cache, not that it simply couldn’t be found. So, “DNF because forest was cut down,” that sort of thing.

My question was twofold:

1. What logs do reviewers see? Both “maintenance” and “archive” logs?

2. What are good parameters for posting either? I guess there are instances where owners don’t mind getting DNFs in perpetuity, but if there is a good chance of a real problem with a cache–not just that it’s a clever hide–what is the best use of either log type?

On the Left Side of the Road...

[Team Deejay]

We get notified for the Needs Archived logs, but not the Needs Maintenance logs. I use the WGA website to see the Needs Maintenance logs as well, so I look at each of those also.

My thinking is that you should post a NM log whenever you think the cache needs maintenance. This would be for wet logs, broken containers, insect infestation, and the like. It is also ok to post it if you are fairly certain that a cache is missing.

A Needs Archived is appropriate when you find a cache on private land/school property without permission (i.e. you are cited, arrested, detained, questioned, or chased off the property by a guy with shotgun), placed in forbidden area (mailboxes, train tracks, bridges, etc.), or when there is no response from the owner after numerous requests for maintenance, cache checks, etc.

So what happens when you post a NM/NA log? In the case of major violations and access issues, we archive the cache right away. Fortunately this is very rare. In all other cases, I look at the caches and make a judgment. If this is the first log to note a problem, or the other logs noting the problem are all within the last month, I just ignore it and give the owner time to fix it. If, on the other hand, I find a cache with complaining logs going back more than a month, I disable it and post my usual “fix it or archive it” note. If the owner ignores it for another month and doesn’t email me with an explanation, I archive the cache.

In the case where someone is claiming the cache is missing, I use the same “one month” rule above, plus, I look for a significant number of DNF logs in a row. So, what is “significant”, you ask? I use Dave’s Law of Consecutive DNFs, which is

A cache is probably missing if the number of consecutive DNFs exceeds the difficulty rating squared plus 1.

So, if a one star difficulty cache has 3 consecutive DNFs, it is probably missing. On the other hand, a five star difficulty cache with 10 consecutive DNFs wouldn’t concern me. Note that I also exclude DNFs where the person logging is really logging a “Did Not Look” rather than a “Did Not Find”, such as “I got to the cache site, but there were a bunch of mosquitoes so we gave up and went to the bar.”

The final rare exception is when the NM/NA log states that the person logging removed the cache for some reason. In those cases, I just disable it right away and let the owner enable it when they get it replaced.

[SammyClaws]

@Team Deejay wrote:

We get notified for the Needs Archived logs, but not the Needs Maintenance logs. I use the WGA website to see the Needs Maintenance logs as well, so I look at each of those also.

Where on the WGA do you find that list? I would definitley check that list out before planning a route of 30 caches.

[-cheeto-]

Recent logs, then change the type to what you want…

[ArcherDragoon]

I have logged four “Needs Archived” Logs…

One on an event that was still “active” several months after it was over…

The other three on caches in which I know the containers were gone…and after I made several attempts to make contact with the cache owners (email and “Needs Maintenance” logs explaining the situation on the cache page)…

Once cache was destroyed by fire…one cache was retrieved by the cache owner with no intention of ever replacing the cache and the other was a cache illegally placed on a USPS Mail Drop-Box…

[Team Deejay]

@SammyClaws wrote:

@Team Deejay wrote:

We get notified for the Needs Archived logs, but not the Needs Maintenance logs. I use the WGA website to see the Needs Maintenance logs as well, so I look at each of those also.

Where on the WGA do you find that list? I would definitley check that list out before planning a route of 30 caches.

For you, Steve, it would be easier to filter your query by log type in GSAK. Just go to the log tab of the filter dialog, change logs to search to “Last 5”, uncheck the “Select All” box next to log types, and then check the “needs maintenance” and “needs archived” boxes, and hit Go. This will give you a list of all the caches in the DB which have one of these two log types in the last 5 logs. Alternatively, you can also filter for every cache which does NOT have these types of logs, and just search for those.

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