Suspicious device in Allouez park is part of game

[zuma]

@gotta run wrote:

Really, the last “find” log should be deleted, as it’s pretty clear the finder didn’t sign the log…

You have gotta be kidding. The fire captain’s find count is a pretty trivial matter, compared to the cost of blowing up the cache. (And at least he didnt claim a FTF – First to Find in a million pieces.)

My thanks to the fire department for handling this incident in a professional manner as well as attempting to educate geocachers of the need to carefully label caches.

What we all need to understand is that Emergency Service workers, whether they are EMS, Fire or Law Enforcement are trained to put personal safety and public safety first. Where there is any room for doubt, then the correct thing to do is to make the scene safe first, and ask questions later.

When I was training EMTs and Paramedics, they were trained over and over again to ask “Is the scene safe?” And then if it is not safe, make it safe. When I was a volunteer firefighter, I learned the need to identify and respond to anything that might be a hazard to myself or other emeregency service workers. So, I admit that I am a bit biased, but I have to say that the Fire Department here did the right thing, and that firefighters are always going to err on the side of safety when there is any doubt at all.

Now, I dont know what the cache looked like. I looked at the cache page, and if it was as small as described by most finders, then I have to wonder what made anyone think that it was a pipe bomb? Like Justin said, Common Sense would kind of suggest that something quite small is not going to be a bomb. The problem is that Common Sense is not as common as it should be.

zuma

[K0rpl]

The container in question was a Small Neck Locker tube that you would put a few single dollar bills in if you were at a water Park, The particular one was no bigger than .5 inches in Diamater. If you snapped a standard #2 Pencil in half, you may be able to put the pencil into the container. And from what I remember it was a Yellow, or a green in color…

Unfortunately Common sense is not common anymore. Zuma hit that on the head. I do have to agree with the statement that the Fire Department has to error on the side of Caution, But I think Common Sense will tell you this was not a Pipe Bomb…… If a Criminal were going to make a Pipe Bomb, I am sure that the first place they would put it is in a small Tree….

Whats next, are Criminals going to start labeling there “explosive Devices” as Official Geocache Game Pieces??!!!??

Come on People. Common sense goes along way. Yes, containers can be labeled “Official Geocache” Or whatever, but in the long run, Common sense wins out…

Kind of seems Odd to me that the person that was partly responsible for it’s demise, would log as a find… Oh well, I guess he is a cacher, and has every right to find every cache…

[Team Black-Cat]

I realize that any time the bomb squad is called, there’s a pretty good chance that something is going to get ‘sploded, but you would think someone might have the presense of mind to ask “What is the target?”. Why would someone want to blow this branch off of this tree off the beaten path? There is never going to be 100% certainty that any cache container that any of us find isn’t going to blow up.

I was 99% sure this was a geocache, but will not gamble on the 1% chance I was wrong.

I wonder what percent chance he would gamble on… 99.5%? 99.99%? I don’t think that level of certainty is possible. There will always be doubt, so something is getting blown up.

I can only shake my head and be glad that Marathon County’s bomb squad has shown themselves to have more common sense.

[gotta run]

@zuma wrote:

When I was a volunteer firefighter, I learned the need to identify and respond to anything that might be a hazard to myself or other emeregency service workers.

My point being, use all the tools at your disposal to make that identification. It’s one thing to be totally unfamiliar with finding a little cache stuck INTO a tree (not hanging from it)…in the middle of a patch of trees…by no building or people in particular. But that wasn’t the case, at all.

Looks like a point was trying to be made here.

@zuma wrote:

@gotta run wrote:

Really, the last “find” log should be deleted, as it’s pretty clear the finder didn’t sign the log…

You have gotta be kidding.

Yes, I am kidding, but it is still lame.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[tkks]

Alas,

the cache was mine. Just a few notes… and clarification.

….it was not a pvc pipe
….it was INSIDE a big hole IN the tree
….it was hidden under bark, leaves etc.
….it has been there since June 2007
….the guy on the television, newspaper was very nice on the phone
….I was asked to call the sheriff dept. this a.m first thing… 😯

[-cheeto-]

Another suggestion for potentially preventing this type of situation might be to describe the nature of the container in the listing. I know this won’t be possible with all caches (creative hides and what have you) but for the run of the mill container/hide types if you would mention something like “The container is one of those small water-proof “lockers” that you see used at waterparks with camo duct tape.” The news report I heard mentioned that the camo tape played a big part in the “doubt” as to what this was. It seems 2nd nature to us as we use camo duct tape all the time. Some muggles (civilians 🙂 ) probably see it as threatening or suspicious.

All in all, from the outside it looks like this was an exercise in being way too over cautious. Having someone who is a geocacher (with over 200 finds) involved in the decision should have meant this could have been avoided. For whatever reason it was not. There are lessons to be learned here regardless (as pointed out in prior posts).

[marc_54140]

Maybe the Bomb Squads should have a geo-cacher on retainer. Send him over to check it out first.

[tkks]

I learned MY lesson. I disabled all my caches that do not have stickers on them, ordered stickers, will place stickers on the outside of all my containers and will follow the rules to a “T” as per my friendly law enforcement officers.

[-cheeto-]

Marc, I think you missed something. I said “SHOULD have meant” not “COULD”. I was not being hypothetical or implying a solution here. I was pointing out that from the outside looking in with hindsight dialed in at 20/20 this was uncalled for.

A geocacher with over 200 finds was involved somehow with the decision to blow this thing up and spend taxpayer dollars. Perhaps I’ve read all of this wrong but if that is the case then why was this not avoided? A simple check of the park/coords and a GPS should have been all it took to confirm this one. Oh, yeah it’s hidden right where a geocache should be. Yep container looks like a typical geocache. Not all geocaches are labeled. In fact most of the one’s I’ve found (with over 800 finds) were not labeled. All of this easily determined if you have over 200 finds under your belt. Not trying to be demeaning just pointing out that this sure is interesting.

I too would have deleted the find log if I was the CO.

[Timberline Echoes]

Just my 2 cents but if someone really wanted to make a bomb that would hurt someone what would stop them from wrapping it in duct tape and slapping a geo sticker on it? Is that in itself a way to prove that it is not a bomb? I don’t have a clue what a real “bomb” looks like unless you count the ones where they tape a bunch of sparklers together. I haven’t seen one but know someone who got booked for carrying on in his vehicle. It is sad to think there are people who create bombs and want to see people hurt but there are.

TE

[sweech]

I missed this on the news last night / this morning, but my students were all excited to tell me about it.

Here’s a link to the video (for those of you interested and away from the Valley) http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local_wluk_allouez_bomb_squad_detonates_suspicious_device_200903151534_rev1

I think the bottom line is that labels/stickers are needed. Maybe we’ll get more cachers from people seeing this story…

[Team Deejay]

I don’t think we can expect law enforcement to look up geocaches on a website, even if maybe this particular guy could have done that. The reality is that until geocaching is more well-known, you will have incidents like this. This is why Becky and I bug you about permission when placing caches in residential or other private property locations and generally say no to bridges, airports, train stations, et al.

Unfortunately, the cache near the edge of an urban park is always at risk for this sort of thing. If a person is acting suspicious and neighbors don’t recognize them, they are going to call the cops. This is especially true for placements around playground equipment. When you place these, be sure to NOT tell your finders to be sneaky. Instead, encourage them to interact with the neighbors. Most people who are watching would really like to know what you are doing, so telling them removes the threat. Its true that one person in 100 will disturb the cache, but most people will be respectful and probably have fun “helping” finders in the future. Of course, this doesn’t help if the person is peering out of a window with binoculars, but you can’t have everything.

[Lostby7]

@sweech wrote:

I missed this on the news last night / this morning, but my students were all excited to tell me about it.

Here’s a link to the video (for those of you interested and away from the Valley) http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local_wluk_allouez_bomb_squad_detonates_suspicious_device_200903151534_rev1

I think the bottom line is that labels/stickers are needed. Maybe we’ll get more cachers from people seeing this story…

Geocache “Devices.” Nice to see the press get it wrong again. Unless you’d call a film can a device. Press like this doesn’t really help the game along.

[GetMeOutdoors]

Yeah, even if the robot DID find a geocache sticker or label on the explosive…er… cache, that probably still wouldn’t have convinced them that it was a geocache. Like TBC said… they won’t be 100% certain until they blow it up, then it’s too late.

Makes me wonder about some of those caches I’ve found that looked like a critter gnawed through them. Maybe the squad was there too.

Somewhere above I read that the police didn’t have record of request for permission to hide the cache. That’s probably the more definitive “explosion insurance” but I’m sure even then there will be question.

People are dumb. Lots of them. I guess it’s a wonder this type of thing doesn’t happen more often. Sorry, tkks that you got caught in the middle. Thanks for taking one for the team.

BTW, I’m referring to the people that reported it in the first place… especially after it had been there so long. Z’s right…. the squad did what they had to do, unfortunately.

TKKS, you should re-hide a non-cammo’ed cache made with a PVC pipe, that has a solar powered blinking red light with wires sticking out and says “ACME” on the side. I bet no one would disturb it.

[EnergySaver]

A couple observations …

(1) I would think when your in the business of protecting the public (ie. law enforcement, fire dept, etc.), to some extent your hands are tied. Joe public citizen finds a plastic container in the woods, you think for a brief second if this might be dangerous, you decide it’s not and yank it open. But if you are on-duty and dispatched to a location and told to deal with a situation that might or might not be serious, I think your stuck and have to deal with those 1% or less risks. Even if it is a safe item, if you just walk up and yank it open under the watchful eye of the public or other professionals, you might be written up for not doing your job. Maybe that would be wrong, but it could happen.

(2) I’m not trying to poke fun of this situation – I truely wonder this. Why is it that bomb squads bring in robots and then use them to blow things like this up? Why don’t these robots have “fingers” or saws to pull things apart or cut them open. It just seems like when you don’t have a bomb, you end up with a bomb any way.

[Author]

Posts