SwissPerpetual.com

[Pto]

quote:

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Swiss players and organizers: do whatever floats your boat, but also do whatever it takes to play nice with the “established neigbors” and the “deed restrictions” so to speak.

Thanks!

Mr. WISearcher

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Very well put, and thank you for your kind words!

[This message has been edited by Pto (edited 09-16-2004).]

[Pto]

*Slaps forehead**
I have found the very useful WI info on the WI resources page-State Natural Areas Map, etc-

thanks!

Pete

[WISearchers]

PTO:

I don’t think you’ll find one link with all entities you’ll want to consider:

Just by googling “geocaching placement guidelines” I got just page one of many state, county, and local websites with rules of placement.

The state natural areas site has links by county; Many of them have maps, but the shaded area, can’t be precise enough. You’ll have to have your approver look into this and have the swiss placer get permission in fuzzy bordering areas. http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/er/sna/bycountylist.htm

Overall, search out as many state, local, & regional geocaching associations as you can to obtain links and copies of these policies. Prepare to hear much grumbling. I don’t envy you.

[Pto]

quote:

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Just by googling “geocaching placement guidelines” I got just page one of many state, county, and local websites with rules of placement.

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Thanks for the tip! – I tried this out about 1/2 hr ago- and have been creating a list ever since. The Wi maps, combined with many others I have used/bookmarked will be a good start- but as you say fuzzy areas exist.

I wonder if the land mangers will view it any differnt, since a Swiss cache is a 1 time placement, being retrieved aftre being found?
That would eliminate any worrries of new trails being made, over use, etc. Only 2 sets of tracks- the hider, then finder.
Anyway, thanks again for the tip!

[Mama Fishcacher]

quote:

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Its the other cachers who are looking for a bit more of a challenge, or are tired of being regulated into parking lot micros by guidelines.(just an example!)

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Fortunately, for those of us in Wisconsin, I truly do not feel we are regulated into parking lot micros! Maybe that’s why some of us don’t *get it* about Swiss. We still have high quality caches in wonderful areas, so we don’t feel a need to “branch out” so to speak.

Anyhow, good luck with your endeavors! I hope it can all work together and go hand in hand!

~Mama Fishcacher

[This message has been edited by fishcachers (edited 09-16-2004).]

[The Swiss Tracker]

All very legitimate discussion. These are the questions which must be answered both for inquiring minds, and to develop Swiss itself. I appreciate the understanding and respect of some.

I want to clear up one little thing here:
Swiss Perpetual is my baby… When the question arises, “Why would I use Swiss when GC.com supplys me with everything I need?” here’s my response: Swiss is for the creative mind. It allows me personally to use my creativity skills and imagination if you will to develop a vision. In that respect, it is important to me regardless of it’s difference from GC.com simply because it is mine! I enjoy the ability to provide an alternative and reach out to other people. Managing the whole thing (despite it’s lack of wholeness right now) is where I find the fun! I truely envy GC.com and what they have. However, when I decided to go off on my own, I realized I would have to change some things and be different. With that in mind, I decided to let it be run by the people! Do I have the final say? Yes. Am I always open to new ideas and development? Absolutely! I really don’t have all the answers, and can easily admit it. That is why I try to incorporate ideas of others into my masterpiece! It’s really everyone’s baby if you look at it that way. Aside from the fact that the caches are moving, and other small differences, that’s the main one. YOU HAVE A SAY! You are someone other than just another number in a list of thousands. This is a never-ending project, a journey. We are learning every day that goes by, making plenty of mistakes, but doing all we can to refine them. What you don’t get here, is security. We never know what tomorrow will bring or where it will lead us. We just believe the sun will rise the next morning, and continue on our ways. Endurance is our game.

I think that’s enough philosophy for one post. Hopefully it sparks some thought, and sheds light on our internal purpose.
Thank you to all who support us (members or not). I play the game because I can…

~ Josh

[sbukosky]

Speaking as an officer of WGA, nobody ”owns” geocaching just as nobody owns, for example, deer hunting. However, in order to keep things orderly, government agencies create rules. WGA has stood out in taking the proactive initiative to minimze detrimental rules for Wisconsin geocachers.

While we by far associate with geocaching.com, I, for one, acknowledge that Navicache and other sites list coordinantes of stashes which are geocaches. Some are mirrors of caches listed on geocaching.com, some are unique. As long as they follow the rules and guidlines of government agencies, respect and avoid private property and use common sense, they can all coexist.

That being said, most, if not all, government agencies that are aware of geocaching, also recognize geocaching.com as the grandfathered leader in such activities. Being so, other sites, for the well being of all, should follow geocaching.com’s guidelines for location and content of caches and in the case of caches in Wisconsin, monitor and abide by the state and local rules that we post on the site. That means, as an example, that if you want to put a Swiss Perpetual cache in Madison, it would have to be done through us even if it is not to be listed on geocaching.com. Not doing so would likely end up with laws containing penalties for any kind of caching.

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Steve Bukosky
Waukesha

[This message has been edited by sbukosky (edited 09-18-2004).]

[The Swiss Tracker]

QUOTE: “they can all coexist.”
Excellent! I couldn’t agree more!

So let me ask you this. Is it possible, that Swiss Perpetual somehow makes an agreement with WGA to have our caches reviewed by you? It would have to be discussed further by us, but I really can’t see why that wouldn’t be an option. If WGA knows all the rules inside and out, that’s great! We’re not neccesarily interested in having to do the approving thing ourselves anyway. That would be really cool, if we could simply send the newfound coordinates to the WGA for approval! Then they could be posted on our site. We very much so want to play by the rules. Perhapps an agreement to work together is in order…

Thoughts?

[Cathunter]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the WGA president is also the WI approver for geocaching.com Aknowledging the incredible amount of hours he has spent researching regulations, property lines and the “legal” placement of every cache in WI, I already see an existing burden. The regulations are so diverse & widespread and the boundries have so many grey areas, that handing over a true set of rules for WI would be a great task in itself.

With Swiss, it would be even a greater burden. Imagine if in a few months there are 30 Swiss caches in WI. If each of these caches moves every week or two, the entire approval process starts over possibly 60-100+ times a month.
Maybe some people like to tie up all their free time, but I don’t know any of them.

[The Swiss Tracker]

Agreed…

I have no problem doing approval, if it comes to that.

Here’s the way I look at things though:
If they are “laws” they MUST be written down clearly, so as citizens can follow them. There should NEVER be difficulties in obtaining laws, or rules with this in mind. I plan to obtain whatever I can find (in black and white) and consider this the rules on caching. If there are “implied” rules, they may not be followed. In this day and age, business is business, and there’s only one real way to follow law.
I will do all I can to create a rulebook which is accurate. As I pilot, I am all to aware of the “grey” areas pertaining to the FAA. There will be no “grey” with Swiss. Members will know exactly what they can and cannot do and that is what they will follow.

[sbukosky]

Swiss Tracker, you own your site so you are responsible for what is listed there. It would be your responsibility to ”approve” the caches listed on your site. You would be responsible to abide by existing laws and agreements with government agencies. As it is often said, ”ignorance of the law…”.

While WGA does not approve geocaches, some officers and board members do. WGA could be thought of as a lobby and advisor group. I won’t speak for the approvers, but I know they spend more time working than they wish necessary.

When I said that other sites can coexist, keep in mind that I doubt that already wary government agencies may not want to contend with other groups of geocaching activities.

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Steve Bukosky
Waukesha

[The Swiss Tracker]

Well, technically, a site CAN act as a listing service only, relieving it from any form of responsibility pertaining to the individual issues. Much like Ebay! They have nothing to do really with what is sold. The responsibility is between the buyer and the seller. BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT WE WANT TO DO… (just wanted to clear that up)

As you so wonderfully put, WGA doesn’t approve caches, but some officers/board members do. In the same respect, we will go on to find the people we need. They will be good people, willing to be positive minded, and help the greater cause. Really, if you are not one of these people, don’t worry, because there will be plenty aside from you willing to help. What’s important to us is the people who express willingness to be optimistic, and help out. The people who express a negative attitude and who may not have an interest in Swiss, will not be met with any interest from us. Not only do we plan to cache here, but we plan to do it in a good environment. Attitudes, negative personalities or problems arising from individuals will without a doubt be sent somewhere else…

[Green Bay Paddlers]

I don’t know gang… this looks pretty cool. Perhaps we can kill two birds with one stone and have Buxley team up with these guys and map their caches. The only issue I see is that it seems like you need to go into each specific cache log to get the location, versus some type of overview map.

Let’s keep an eye on this. The hobby needs to evolve if it’s to grow. Traditional caches are getting harder and harder to place as more and more are out there. As geocaching numbers continue to grow, the more impact there is on the environment too.

Nice job Swiss – looking forward to seeing you guys expand your take on the hobby…

[The Swiss Tracker]

Thank you! Each optimistic response I get makes it all worthwhile over and over again!

As far as the “map” or “overlay” goes, here’s the status:

We ARE going to have maps which show cache locations. We ARE going to be able to search for a cache by; location, agent who placed it, difficulty rating (1-10), or any other piece of information.

The site is being COMPLETELY revamped and upgraded. So many of these issues (including the site’s visual issue) will be fixed to a T! Of course, we will continue to take suggestions and probably be changing the site every step of the way!

You bring up another great point! Cache density is getting tremedous! Not that it’s a bad thing, but it very well could develop into one. Here at Swiss, there will never be issues with agencies or anyone about density. They come they go! They move around! If you know a great place for a cache, you can continue to place it there over and over again! Or on the flip side, you can travel to ever new places since the caches move! It’s just a really cool thing if ya’ think about it.

Thanks again! Feelin’ the love…

[This message has been edited by The Swiss Tracker (edited 09-20-2004).]

[Flushingrouse]

Tracker,

What happens when I would go to look for one of these caches and as it turns out, someone had been there earlier in the day and took it with them? I could be looking for it for quite some time…. And it’s really gone..

Help me out with this…

[Author]

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