What will kill the game

[-cheeto-]

@rtrezrsnhvn wrote:

can I just say that I’m thankful that everyone on this board is a whole lot friendlier…. yikes – almost hateful atmosphere there.
thanks for sharing the link cheeto.

I hear you there!

It’s always the same crowd of posters and they don’t make it a very friendly place for new posters. I’m glad were much more civil over here 😉

Something to also stir up this discussion is the fact that Groundspeak has apparently already made it possible to post a no-text found it log from one of the mobile apps and they plan to do so with the main website as well. Now that is disappointing.

I for one love to write about my adventures and I often read my old logs to remember. I also enjoy reading other cacher’s logs on my favorite caches and logs on the new caches that come out. The online logs are one of my favorite parts of geocaching. But then again, I rarely find so many that I can’t remember something about each find. And even if the cache is just another park n grab (which I do not really target anymore) I still tend to log something, at a minimum thanking the placer with more than just an acronym.

[gotta run]

I am again taking the contrarian view here. In fact I posted an idea on the gc feedback area way back when to make writing a log optional. I got blasted for it, as I expected, but after this time this is exactly what gc has gone by allowing blank logs.

Why do I advocate making logs optional, when I have also bemoaned the fact that people do not write creative logs? Because we are talking about two different things.

On one hand, there is what I would LIKE people to do…what I feel to be considerate, polite, and thoughtful.

On the other hand, there is what can be REQUIRED of people to do.

Now, there is no way that we can require people to write meaningful logs. Therefore, people are only going to write them if they WANT to.

So I’d much rather see a blank log than another “tftc” or “Enjoyed your cache, thanks” cut and paste. A blank log brings me just as much personal satisfaction as a thought-free log.

On the Left Side of the Road...

[billrwilson]

recently someone in my area placed OVER 100 caches just to get a high number of hides. all they are is film containers (if even that) on the side of the road. park and grabs on sign posts and gard rails. those deserve only a TFTC in my opinion because no thought was put into them. west bend seems to becoming a park and grab area instead of what it used to be.

[BeccaDay]

I’ve been following this thread with interest because I am curious what all you seasoned geocachers think on this topic. I guess I am getting rid of my “newbie” status as I have been caching a year now and have found over 300 caches. But since I began geocaching by being self-taught I feel like it took me a while to learn the ropes, and I’m still learning them. A few cachers have been very helpful to me as I am figuring things out, like posting etiquette, the best kinds of hides, etc. But I just want to throw out there that the junk caches you all have been talking about were really helpful to me at first. As I said, I was self-taught in the beginning. I had heard about geocaching here and there over the years. Then a friend posted some pictures on facebook and I thought “cool, I’m going to try that!” and so I used my Garmin Nuvi that I used in my car, checked out the video on gc.com and found some caches nearby. I later upgraded to using the groundspeak app on my Droid. Anyway, it was really helpful for me to find those easy caches in the beginning because I had no clue what I was doing. I found a lot that way. There was no way I could do the micros in the woods because my GPS was just not that accurate. In fact, I had given up trying for micros completely until I started using my smartphone. Now that I have cached a little longer I have started to pass on those easier and much less interesting caches unless I am trying for a FTF or if I just want to quickly add a number. I definately have come to appreciate the more interesting containers and locations and prefer those. I also have started trying to solve puzzle caches which is turning out to be a lot of fun, even if I am completely stumped for a while there is nothing like the satisfaction of solving a puzzle on your own and then going out to find it.

I also want to throw out one more thing that I think has changed the game and the kinds of hides and finds. Since groundspeak added all those features to everyone’s profiles, especially the statistics tab, I think habits are changing. I know they did for me. My longest streak was 10 days before I could check my statistics and I thought there was no way that should be that low! I started trying to grab easy ones on days I was busy just so that I could have at least one find that day. I know there were all kinds of websites before that offered this but I would bet that people didn’t check them as often. But on the plus side it made me realize that I had been doing too many 1.5/1.5 and I have been branching out more. I would love to see a full difficulty grid one day.

OK, I lied. One more thing. I would also agree and thank you all for being much more pleasant than those who post on geocaching.com. Those are the forums I first started looking at when trying to figure things out and I was turned off by how nasty people got. The WGA forums are much nicer! 😀

Not all who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien

[bugsmasher69]

I feel your pain Sloughfoot. I would say in the last four months 90% of my caches that have been logged has been the TFTC. It has fusterated me but I have’t said anything about it. What set me off and as my caches have problems now I am removing them and archiving. The log that pushed me over the edge was a TFTC find and then a needs maintenence log that was three lines long for a wet log with a hole in the container. This cache hadn’t been found since last fall so I don’t feel the nml was needed at that time. I hate to get rid of me caches but I don’t have much free time anymore and it seems like all the time I have is running maintenence of caches which most didn’t need anything fixed on them like the log is full and when I got to it only one side of the papers where full. Geez are people really that dumb they can’t see the other side is empty and can be used yet?

[guidetoo]

Perhaps nothing said is maybe the best answer for a log. Then to their may it may be that nothing is given away that would give away a fantastic hide by not saying anything, After all some one may be insulted by what ever some one may write. Maybe they do not have no creativity d are afraid to say anything cause it may raise a bad word. Or just maybe some catcher feels that is it leaves more to the estimation of what really happen in the quest to a cache.

[BakRdz]

Wow. Great thread. I’ve been in a forum hiatus lately, but I’m glad I came upon this one. My two cents:

I dislike cut and paste logs as much as anyone in here. Even when I don’t have much to say I never a simple “TFTC” or “Out caching with _____.” or my least favorite “Easy find.” I expect those on a few of my roadside attraction P/G kind of caches, but it drives me nuts when I have a thoughtful cache or a simple request and that’s the best anyone can do. However it won’t kill the game for me. I just delete the notifications from my email box quicker than it took the logger to post the find and move on.

These type of logs and the advent of new technology have made me realize the game is evolving (or mutating depending on how you look at it). From my perspective, there have become essentially two major categories of cachers: Roadtrippers and Adventurers. Roadtrippers are number driven. FTF’s and quantity is the goal. A fun time is to see how many you can knock off, most often as a group. Adventurers pick and area or a specific cache to conquer. They gain satisfaction from a trek with a few caches along the way. It’s more about the journey than the destination, perhaps solo or with a few friends.

There are hybrids, but I would argue that most people lean either one way or another. A Roadtripper might go on a deep woods hike for a cache or two, but they judge a trip successful by the 14-25 other quick grabs they made along the way. An Adventurer might pick up a few p/g’s on the way to somewhere, but the trip is best remembered and enjoyed by the one or two spectacular caches they did.

Here’s where things really get complicated. GC.com is a service provider. Currently I see them trying to satisfy both types of cachers, but I don’t think they are or even can. As an example…Roadtrippers would probably be happier if the logging was taken completely out of the site. Perhaps something as simple as a number or QR code to collect to prove you were there. (Even that might be too much to ask).

I don’t see the game being killed, however, I do see the game splintering and I could forsee someone coming up with a site dedicated to the numbers type cacher – Sort of a merger of Foursquare and Geocaching – that caters to the way they want to play the game. I know people have tried to come up with competition to GC.com before, but I think they’ve always tried to lure the adventurer/purist in. Those people aren’t likely to migrate due to the history they have established as well as generally not wanting to adopt a new way of doing things. Numbers cachers however might be more likely to adopt something new.

Problem is GC.com would likely try to change their site more to cater to that group to keep from loosing new cachers to the competition. This would likely lead to larger dissatisfaction amongst the purists which might lead them to give up the game instead of joining something new.

My hope? That GC.com realizes that there are generally two segments of cachers and that they would work to cater them with TWO sites that could interact with each other if someone wanted to do both, but primarily were independent and targeted at the two groups. Example: modify Waypointing.com into something more attractive for the numbers/location based cacher and try to migrate those people to that site while adjusting Geocaching.com into less guardrails and p/g’s by putting more restrictions on cache types/locations and logging requirements (perhaps even bringing back ALRs). Then there would be a way for all types of cachers to play and an easier way for people who didn’t want to see things like P/G’s or puzzles to ignore them.

Just my thoughts…

[Lacknothing]

A lot of good points made in this thread. We try never to just write TFTC. I have an iPhone that I will use and I set it so that I can log the find and send it to my field notes and compose a nice log when I am home at my computer. Even on a park and grab, I try to include something interesting about the weather or what’s around us. TFTC, by itself, to me is just not acceptable.

I think what is really getting under my skin recently though, is geocachers who chase FTF’s and then write in their logs about themselves, rather than the cache. This is just not acceptable. Have seen this happen most recently in Merc’s new Over, Under, Around and Through caches. We have done a couple and they are worth writing about. They are an adventure. So the log that says “found it in 10 minutes and grabbed the co-ftf” upsets me. Nothing about the actual quality of the cache. That bums me out.

My two cents worth….

The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.

[GrannyGoesAlong]

IMO TFTC… as bad a pasting the same message for every cache found on a specific day.

Though I have pasted a portion of my log in same day finds… I usually add to and change comments related to each specific cache. And on fun or unusual hides I put a bit of thought in to what I post; sharing the excitement of the find with the cache owner is part of the fun 😉

[CodeJunkie]

It appears GC.com has made the “comments” box smaller again with the latest site changes. This certainly doesn’t help with encouraging people to right logs. I used to use the box as a “gauge” to determine how I was doing. Now it takes nothing to fill it up.

[huffinpuffin2]

@CodeJunkie wrote:

It appears GC.com has made the “comments” box smaller again with the latest site changes. This certainly doesn’t help with encouraging people to right logs. I used to use the box as a “gauge” to determine how I was doing. Now it takes nothing to fill it up.

You can drag to resize and enlarge the box using the ‘dots’ at the lower left corner. Very much like in the text box on this forum.

[Team Black-Cat]

@huffinpuffin2 wrote:

You can drag to resize and enlarge the box using the ‘dots’ at the lower left corner. Very much like in the text box on this forum.

I’m not seeing that. Maybe a Firefox thing?

[huffinpuffin2]

@Team Black-Cat wrote:

@huffinpuffin2 wrote:

You can drag to resize and enlarge the box using the ‘dots’ at the lower left corner. Very much like in the text box on this forum.

I’m not seeing that. Maybe a Firefox thing?

Wow – good catch! You’re right, as I don’t see that functionality in IE. Also, for FF, I meant the lower right.

[GetMeOutdoors]

@huffinpuffin2 wrote:

@Team Black-Cat wrote:

@huffinpuffin2 wrote:

You can drag to resize and enlarge the box using the ‘dots’ at the lower left corner. Very much like in the text box on this forum.

I’m not seeing that. Maybe a Firefox thing?

Wow – good catch! You’re right, as I don’t see that functionality in IE. Also, for FF, I meant the lower right.

Chrome does it as well – good way to screw with the layout on someone’s page 🙂

[Crow-T-Robot]

@huffinpuffin2 wrote:

@CodeJunkie wrote:

It appears GC.com has made the “comments” box smaller again with the latest site changes. This certainly doesn’t help with encouraging people to right logs. I used to use the box as a “gauge” to determine how I was doing. Now it takes nothing to fill it up.

You can drag to resize and enlarge the box using the ‘dots’ at the lower left corner. Very much like in the text box on this forum.

This is available in Firefox 4. Earlier versions did not have this feature…at least not the version I was running (3.6). I kept looking for the dots and could not find them!

[Author]

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