When to ask to archive/NM?

[kc9gbo]

Spinning this section out of the Island discussion as I feel it is worth discussing as it is an issue that I have and would like some clarification on myself.

glorkar wrote:
Couldn’t someone contact Wis Kid? Some long time cachers have made the notes. It’s not like it’s coming from some noobs.

I’m guessing (??) that reviewers have already gotten notice of it based on the two “Needs Archived” notes. While I can’t say for sure why it hasn’t been placed on the fast track to oblivion, I have been told that a system is used where the terrain and difficulty rating are compare to the # of DNFs; i.e., a 1/1 cache goes on the fast track quicker than a 5/5. Now the obvious downside to that is when a cache is clearly missing like this one, no one is going to actually waste the time to go look for it. So if you wanna get it moving, I guess that means we should all log some DNFs

Ok, so it goes likes this, I know of at least 5 caches in my immediate area that are most likely missing. Two I know are definetly gone and the others the logs reflect that fact. What I wonder is how come first nobody ever posts a N/M log on them? Are they scared to? Just lazy or don’t care? If I can’t fix the cache I post a N/M to warn folks and inform (hopefully) the owner that something is wrong. The 3 that I am aware of are by owners who aren’t real diligent in the hides or maintaining them and so the notes leading up to that point won’t help. Also, these 3 I haven’t done but that’s because I remove them from my pocket query in Gsak everytime it runs and then go in and verify that I was correct removing them. So that’s the first part of my new thread.
The second part is asking to archive, at what point does it become necessary to make that move? One of the other two I made a point to do a cache rescue on and it is still active! The owner posted in Feb he was going to do maintenance but it still is missing and not repaired. I am tempted to post a needs archive but I don’t feel I should be the cache police either, but I do want to maintain the area with caches that are findable and not clog folks like me with “junk” caches in their pocket queries. I almost feel there should be a tips spot where a person could submit a cache to be removed from the listings just for this reason. Interested in your comments, I’m sure most everyone has this problem in their area and this would make for a great discussion.

Edit for: Maybe a mod can bring in the rest of that thread here so we can include that for discussion?? Thanks!

[BigJim]

Good thread.
I have had those same questions. I have a cache 4 miles from my home

GCZBZ4 that is missing. I have e-mailed the CO twice, posted a NM log, and nothing has been done. The CO doesn’t respond and has not logged a cache in over a year and a half. I’ve contacted two people who did find the cache before it went missing to verify where it was, so I can say with complete certainty that it is gone. I’m to the point where I’m about ready to just replace it, log the find, and go on.

All opinions, comments, and useless drivel I post are mine alone and do not reflect the opinions of the WGA BOD.

[Trekkin and Birdin]

I’m speaking as myself and not a member of the board here. We’ve never posted either kind of note on any cache. If we did think there were maintenance issues we couldn’t help, we’d contact the owner by email.

As to the needs archived, that’s a tough call. We have encountered caches we were convinced were gone, only to see someone else come along, often with just a few finds, and they find it. That’s the nature of the game. I just don’t like to assume that if we don’t find it that it’s not there.

It’s a fine line, I know. I do know Dave has said that judiciously applied, posting such logs is a service to the reviewer.

[Team Black-Cat]

Please do NOT replace the ocntainer if the cache owner is not responsive to Emails/logs/etc. It will just be one more unmaintained container.

Hmm… I’m having a strange feeling of deja vu here.…

[RSplash40]

@BigJim60 wrote:

Good thread.
I have had those same questions. I have a cache 4 miles from my home

GCZBZ4 that is missing. I have e-mailed the CO twice, posted a NM log, and nothing has been done. The CO doesn’t respond and has not logged a cache in over a year and a half. I’ve contacted two people who did find the cache before it went missing to verify where it was, so I can say with complete certainty that it is gone. I’m to the point where I’m about ready to just replace it, log the find, and go on.

TeamEverest are difficult to get ahold of at best, I found one of their caches in a obviously well traveled spot and it was trashed, parts scattered 20 feet in every direction. I took what was left of the container, put a NM on and emailed the owner. After several months of no communication it was archived. They did pop back on a year or so ago, placed a new cache or two and have since gone missing again.

I’d have to go with TBC – if they don’t respond in a reasonable amount of time, and I personally think you’ve waited long enough, I would put a NA on it, the reviewers will give them another sufficient period to correct the problem and then they will archive.

[kc9gbo]

I’m not a fan of replacing a container, in fact I don’t think we’ve ever done that. I have left filmcans in containers that were falling apart to help protect the log.
An excellent case of what I’m talking about is this cache in Iowa that we did a couple weeks ago: GC16CTT
I have emailed the owner several times to try to get them to take care of the cache, have gone on the Iowa forums to try to see if anyone knows the folks and pretty much it sounds like the cache will remain the way it is. I almost want to go there and replace it, but then like stated we will still have geogarbage again eventually as it isn’t being maintained.
My thought is that the N/M should be used a little bit more than what it is, as it provides a way to warn folks that the cache may need some tlc or that there is a problem and if they wish to avoid it they can and the only way to flag it out for those is with the N/M log. Please keep that in mind as one reason to post it, I too try to keep a stock of paper and baggies along with photo cans to help do maintenance but sometimes they need more than that.

[Mister Greenthumb]

Personally as an owner of 170+ hides I don’t want anyone replacing any of my caches. I’ll take care of my own maintenance which I do if I’m made aware of it. I’ve had too many cachers post logs saying the cache is missing and a week later it is found. After 3 or 4 dnf’s I’ll check on a cache. If it bothers you that much put a needs maintenance on the cache. You must remember though that the reviewers have guidelines on how and how much time to give problem caches. Also the reviewers are volunteers for geocaching.com, not the WGA. Just because someone has been active for a while doesn’t always mean they are out of the game. I recently had someone new in the area find a few of our caches and they hadn’t cached for over 2 years. My best advice to everyone is that there are over 12,000 caches in Wisconsin and unless you’re on a mission to find every one of them don’t worry about a few that have problems.

[BigJim]

Thanks for your advice. I have posted a NA log for the cache I mentioned above. Just for the record, when I stated that I thought about replacing the cache, had I done that I would have taken over responsibility for maintaining it. I offered to adopt it, but received no response from the CO. I did log a NM in March but nothing has been done.

All opinions, comments, and useless drivel I post are mine alone and do not reflect the opinions of the WGA BOD.

[Team Deejay]

When caches are reported missing, we look for a number of DNFs proportionate to the difficulty of the cache. (Yes, Jim, 1 is a number, but not the number we are looking for.) Since certain people don’t feel the obligation of posting their DNFs, sometimes this process takes a long time. It also screws things up when people post false find logs “because they were in the area and looked for a long time” because I might not notice that the log is bogus. There is also a time component, so if there are 10 DNFs in a day, I’m not going to jump on the cache owner. I try to give at least a month after the first DNF for the owner to take some action. I find that most responsible owners will at least post a note within a week of a DNF.

As far as the typical maintenance problems go, I look for inaction over an extended period. It always amazes me when people ignore “wet log” complaints for 6 months, then get offended when someone calls them on it.

[huffinpuffin2]

Thanks Team Deejay! 8)

[GetMeOutdoors]

@Team Black-Cat wrote:

Hmm… I’m having a strange feeling of deja vu here.…

I hear the faint echo of an exited Zuma exclaiming the chant….

But as fast as they appeared, they vanished again…. Wow. Didn’t see that coming! 🙄

[glorkar]

First off, I’m glad this got brought out on it’s own thread (I did kind of steal the other one 😳 )

Second, it’s looks like we’ve now got a lot of good information on the whole process. Personally, I’ve never come across a cache that truly needed maintenance. I did post a NM log when I had started caching, but it was for a wet/full log or something along those lines. It was before I started carrying extra paper/logs and baggies. I’m still not sure if that is a legit reason for a NM log.

As far as a Needs Archiving log, I would never post one for a DNF that I had never found before. If I was going back for the LCG or just because, I might consider it. But for the most part, a simple DNF with full disclosure of my search is sufficient for me.

[BigJim]

Team DeeJay,

Thank you for explaining the process. I am sorry if my earlier post seemed like I was pointing a finger at you or any other reviewer. That was not my intent. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the reviewers who make this whole game possible by their unselfish dedication. I know that you put a lot of time into reviewing cache submissions and logs and you have to deal with newby mistakes like a couple I have made 😳

All opinions, comments, and useless drivel I post are mine alone and do not reflect the opinions of the WGA BOD.

[Timberline Echoes]

WE have a nano cache on a park bench that often gets the “NM” button pushed on it. Partly because a piece of velcro is attached to the same bench where a key holder cache once was. Newbies find that and assume it is missing and don’t even look for the nano. We explain, go check it and wait for the next person. LOL!
TE

[RSplash40]

@Timberline Echoes wrote:

WE have a nano cache on a park bench that often gets the “NM” button pushed on it. Partly because a piece of velcro is attached to the same bench where a key holder cache once was. Newbies find that and assume it is missing and don’t even look for the nano. We explain, go check it and wait for the next person. LOL!
TE

A nano on a park bench? Hrmm…maybe thats why I dnf’d it..I was looking in the pine trees

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