Why not combined effort to map ALL state park hiking trails?

[DCexplorer]

Sorry I missed the picnic, but the weather… sigh…

As I was pondering the intricacies of geocaching this morning over coffee, it occurred to me that it would be nice to be able to download a trail map of ALL state park hiking trails onto my GPS, (along with points of interest like nature centers, observation towers and bathrooms) so anytime I’m out hiking in a state park, I can see where I’m at in relation to the walking trails around me.

How feasible would it be if we, as a widely scattered statewide group, harnessing the walking powers of DOZENS of WGA volunteers, to physically WALK all of hiking trails in Wisconsin’s state parks, upload the tracklogs to a central WGA repository, and have a few of our more knowledgeable members create a comprehensive trail map for all to download and use? It might give us some brownie points with the DNR…

I know track data can be overlayed with Google Earth, but I would also want some way to download trail data to my 60cx. The Garmin topo maps have much to be desired in terms of hiking trails.

It would probably take a couple of months to complete, but would be a nice autumn task for the WGA membership…

thoughts?

DCexplorer

[DCexplorer]

One more thing…

If you Google “wisconsin gps trail data” you can see that snowmobile enthusiasts have done this exact thing for snowmobile trails…

[PCFrog]

[hogrod]

I think this is a great idea! I’ve been working on adding trails to openstreetmaps. With a bit of work these maps can be loaded to most Garmin mapping units.

The only catch is to use your tracks for creating trails on openstreetmaps they have to be in GPX format and include all the time stamp data. Here is am example of a few trails I have added to openstreetmaps.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.8469&lon=-89.492&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF

I am also planning a trip to governor dodge this fall and will get a few more trails while I’m there. I have a few drawn already but must of those are just traced from aerial photo maps so they are probably off a bit. I posted a note on the forum before the camp out this spring that if anyone could get me some GPS tracklogs while there I would love to use them for creating trails on openstreetmaps, I never got any response. 😥

[TyeDyeSkyGuy]

This has been sugested a few times in the past and nothing has ever come of it. It would be fantastic if we could put this together this time. I would love to voluteer to do the parks in my area.

[Team Deejay]

I too like this idea, but unfortunately openstreetmaps is not the answer. This site suffers from several “fatal flaws”. First, the software is really designed to upload “trips”, rather than routes, and therefore requires accurate timestamp data for the upload to succeed. If someone created a GPX with multiple trips combined into one map, the software fails as the timestamps just don’t make sense. You could theoretically edit the GPX file to adjust the timestamps, but that is painful enough that most people would not want to do it.

Second, the site has no search functionality. None! And even if you find a track you want by scrolling around on the map, you cannot find that particular file to download.

My thoughts are that the world needs a “trails to tracks” database, with good search/upload/download capability and built-in file conversion between GPX, Garmin, Magellan, and Lowrance file format (and probably others I haven’t thought of). I see no reason to limit the scope to state parks. In fact, I would suggest that county parks and state wildlife areas are probably a greater need. I have played around with the concept only long enough to discover my web server doesn’t support PHP, which seems to be a requirement for this sort of thing. I would also need a server supporting Unix scripting to allow GPS-Babel to be incorporated “under the hood”. I haven’t had time to dig into getting a different server, but its just a matter of getting enough time to do the design.

FYI – I first approached this looking at creating custom Garmin maps instead of track files. This was just too time consuming and not practical, plus, it leaves out probably 80% of the GPS owners, considering that many low end units have no map capability, and, of course, other brands cannot use the Garmin format. I am 100% in agreement with hogrod that track files are the way to go.

[hogrod]

I agree that opestreetmaps isn’t the answer to sharing tracks, I just mentioned it because I could also use this data to update those maps too. I really like having an online map that shows trails and can be edited by anyone. You can also load these maps to a garmin gps, but its not exactly easy: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Map_On_Garmin

You can create your own custom maps with google maps, and use http://www.takitwithme.com/ to send to a garmin gps. I realize this option would never work not only because it only works for garmin units, but because it trys to load all tracks which would be way more saved tracks than most units can handle. I guess you could have a different database for each park, not have one for the whole state.

I’m sure though that GPX format would be the best way to go. There is a program(can’t remember the name) that I have seen that will convert tracks from Garmin, Magellan and Lowrance. Since I have been looking at a Delorme GPS too, I would also like to see support for these units.

[DCexplorer]

I would think people would want trail data that they could somehow overlay on top of the maps they already have, not force people to switch from their standard highway maps (which already have much State Park road information) to a different map which only has trail tracks and PoI. I would also want it to actually show up as a trail, not just breadcrumbs.

Perhaps a closer look at how our snowmobiling brethren have handled it…

I also agree that county parks and SNA’s would be useful information, but would make those a secondary priority.

Have any other geocaching groups attempted such a feat? No use reinventing the wheel if another group has solved this.

An interesting problem, though; hmmm…

[hogrod]

@DCexplorer wrote:

I would also want it to actually show up as a trail, not just breadcrumbs.

For people with Magellan, Garmin, DeLorme & Lowrance to be able to use these trails they would have to be Track files(breadcrumbs). The only way for them to show up as trails not tracks on your gps is to make your own custom maps.
You can make transparent map layers for Garmin units that would do exactly what you want, but that would leave out anyone without a Garmin mapping gps. This option also wouldn’t allow you to see them on your own map software on the PC. It also would require special software to load them to your GPS.

[hogrod]

I just took a look at the maps the snowmobiling group has made, I would have to look more to see exactly what they are doing for each gps, but they do support Lowrance, Magellan and Garmin.

http://www.gpssledmaps.com/maps/wi.php

EDIT: looks like they have made custom maps for each gps type. they even have an installer that installs the maps in mapsource. the whole state of Wisconsin is only like 14mb with the trial data, lakes, and streets.

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